In a less abrasive and colorful manner than I previously have done, I'd like to explore ways in which we can better educate the less trained participant about the importance of opening up a scene and cheating out to the audience.
Discuss.
Discuss.
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Cheating out
Mon, June 2, 2008 - 9:44 PMI'll have some of what he's having.
To paraphrase some of the former thread, there appears to be a problem with people who are concentrating so hard on 1) staying in character/BFA/historical context/class distinctions and 2) remembering what it is they are supposed to be doing (whatever the gig is) that they confuse the Queen with the audience (which is the patrons, not the APQ).
I am quite certain that I have been guilty as charged on more than one occasion. It's kinda like learning to drive - so many things to remember, and never sure which of the 360 degrees your audience is in. It's certainly easier when you're on a stage and have the audience all in one place, not to mention lines to speak and a plot line to follow. But then, we like to be challenged, don't we?
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Re: Cheating out
Mon, June 2, 2008 - 11:01 PMMe. Charged and convicted!
I knew it as soon as I was done! Since I am defintely one of these less trained....
Perhaps - to what degree should one stand to the APQ? Literally - if there is a triangle with the APQ, myself, and the audience as the points - what 'angle' should I be to both of my other points? A 90"?
Do I point my shoulder at her and addresss them only?
What pointers can you give for remembering this when you're so freakin' nervous about being there? -
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Re: Cheating out
Mon, June 2, 2008 - 11:17 PMI have learned that tugging. pulling or pushing folks, even those in your own guild, is unwelcome and viewed as hostile. Whispering in an ear is received much better.
Most times, I seem to do it naturally. Sometimes I forget.... and correct myself as soon as I remember.
Oh, and then there is the RPFS legendary (or so I'm told the story is told & retold, making it a legend) correction. About 14 years ago, I heard that 2 "professional" actors (one was a member of my guild) were going to do a night show. We were told incessantly for weeks what magnificent "professionals" they were and they were doing a show about LeStat & vampires. Well on the night of the show I stopped by and was tortured with an awful and boring show. The "professional" actors faced each other, but mostly they faced the backdrop. I was sitting in the very back and projected, "Cheat out!" They did, but it didn't improve the show.
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 12:01 AMSometimes I've seen a monarch gently remind the actor to tell their story to those listening, before the actor starts their tale. And sometimes I've seen the monarch(s) forget themselves that they need to talk to the audience, not their court standing on stage.
I look forward to reading more replies, as I would like to see some answer(s) to this to help us all. -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 8:09 AMI only apply hands as a last resort, after pre-gig instruction and repeated gentle urging during the gig are disregarded.
Naneh, you don't need to face her at all. If you stand off to one side facing directly to the front, you're still just fine. The key is to resist the perfectly human and natural instinct to communicate with the face of the person you are addressing. Keep in mind that who you're REALLY addressing is the audience.
If you want to stand at an angle, be sure that your rear foot is placed in front of you, which will turn your body outwards and will allow you to address a pretty wide angle.
People also have a thing against putting their back to the Queen. In reality this would be correct. In theatre, not so much. You won't be perceived as turning your back on her unless you make a show of it by very deliberately turning away with an attitude, or very deliberately ignoring her. -
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 3:07 PMI was thinking that for people unaccustomed the sitiuation, it may (or may not :-) help to tell people that they can always ask the Queen for "permission" to turn away and speak. You KNOW she is going to say yes, but I wonder if it would help allieviate that built-in taboo of never turning your back on the monarch.
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 8:10 AMSomebody (I believe it was Maggie) suggested making Cheating Out 101 a workshop. Beautiful idea - I'd be among the first to sign up. I have no formal theater training. I only have what I've picked up through observation of others at Faire and a few other acting venues, which probably includes the not-so-good habits too.....I remember the first time I ever heard the phrase "cheating out" and had NO idea what it meant.....
So yeah, offer the workshop. I'll take it. -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 8:19 AMWe might want to call it "Staging 101" since the term "cheating out" means squat to the uninitiated. I'm really surprised a workshop in basic stage craft isn't required for all participants at the big shows (is it?).
What do we do for those on the small faire circuit? There's always the Ren Symposium, but not everyone can get to or afford it. -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 11:07 AM
Ry,
While Staging 101 would'nt be bad what is really, really necessary is Acting 101 because as stated here, and elsewhere the majority of folks at faire get their basic acting skills from faire workshops and instead of learning the foundations of acting what do they get offered Improv.
While the Symposium may not be affordable or "do able" for many there are a lot more who can and do make it. If this is unavailable to them and acting really is something they endeavor to do better at a faire then there is absolutely no reason that they should not be able to take a basic acting class this is California after all land of actors.
Or if, as Molly stated there were folks who were willing to set up a course for basic acting and then offer it to those in the community who would be interested you could get a whole new acting school happening in the area.
Beyond all of that yeah, just keep reminding them to speak to the audience and not the Queen or whomever is the central focus of the interaction. -
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 11:01 AMWith apologies to Peter O’Toole in “My Favorite Year”.
Am I the only one with visions of someone standing of stage and shouting “I’m not an Actor, I’m a Fair Player”?
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 1:39 PMTo answer your question, I do know that Play Faire Productions has a workshop that covers this, Actually, if I'm not mistaken, all the workshop teachers that teach any kind of acting cover it. It is also covered in "the Big Picture" and "Rules of Play" both of which are mandatory.
As for small fairs, it could be given as a handout on the form people have to sign. Of course that requires folks to do that dreaded "reading" thing. It could be covered in the morning meeting.
Or a video could be made, demonstrating and explaining different staging techniques and posted on YouTube with a link on all the Ren Faire tribes. -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 1:48 PMFor those of you who overcame an inability to cheat out, what worked for you?
For those of you who still aren't able to overcome it, what do you think would help?
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 2:00 PMI like the youtube suggestion.
Need some cameras, some editing software, and a narrator.
"Welcome to the first edition of www.cheatthehellout.com! In this video, you will learn the basic skills needed to survive in a gig at fair." (cheesy guitar musak in background, inspirational video style)
"Of course, if you fail to apply these common acting skills, you will suck, fail and be laughed at by your peers." (scene of actor slinking away from laughing peers) -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 2:03 PMThanks, Roxanne. I've been off the real stage for way too long.
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 10:00 PMHere is my personal experience with cheating out as a new person many years ago. Now I knew about facing the audience, you know NEVER turn your back to the audience thing from theater but I was so nervous about speaking Elizabethan,the newness of faire, having to talk to anyone for fear of messing up that I forgot to cheat out. In the middle of a gig someone kept saying to me pst....cheat out....well first of all I didn't know that is what faire folk called facing the audience, and secondly I was embarassed that I didn't know what it meant. I sort of got the idea right away but it was very distracting for a new person who was trying to gig with a fellow actor. I then kept my mouth shut for a long time before I felt comfortable enough to really gig again. I feel that this situation is not the norm though. As troupe or guild leaders it is your responsiblity to teach this to your members through rehearsals etc, but the producers also have a responsibilty to the show. There are a number of people that do not belong to groups who rehearse or have strong theatrical backgrounds, when faced with seasoned actors or the APQ they are intimatated and they do what is natural.....face the person they are speaking to. If the producers would have a handout as Lisa mentioned to give to the participants that says ..."When you gig with the Queen make sure you face the audience not the Queen." or when gigging with any one. Make sure to keep the audience engaged. I know at Court people make arrangements ahead of time to come and perform for the Queen and Lisa tries to cover this before they get there but they don't always remember or they just show up which no one has control over. When the later happens it would be nice for those of us who are more seasoned to privately let the person know to cheat out. -
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 9:05 AMYanno, Christine, you hit on the one reason why people don't cheat out.
You can send out fliers, do PSA on television, send singing telegrams telling people to "cheat out" and explain it till you're blue in the face. But the new person arriving at court is going to be thinking:
"Well, they said to cheat out. I'll watch to see what everyone else is doing. Is that guy cheating out? He doesn't look like he's cheating out. Maybe they don't really mean it. If I do it, and no one else does it, I'll look stupid. I don't want to look dumb, so I'll just face the queen, it can't be that big of a difference. Cheating out seems dumb, anyway, and it looks stupid. I don't want to look dumb. It's just fair, so who cares? Wait, is that guy cheating out? No, he's talking to that stuck up noble over there, and they're facing each other, they're -ignoring- the queen. Did they say it was okay to ignore the queen in the handout? I'll bet no one ignored the queen in the medieval times or whatever time era this is supposed to be. Those guys are definitely not cheating out. What if the stuck up noble talks to me? Am I supposed to turn my back on that guy, too? Do these people think this is real theater or something?! Gah, why did I agree to come see the queen to ask for a letter of marque? I mean, I'm a pirate! Would they be pissed if I back out on seeing the queen? Aw, crap, they want me to go in now. Too late! I'm screwed!"
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 8:29 AM"Somebody (I believe it was Maggie) suggested making Cheating Out 101 a workshop."
Well it was me, although I can't seem to find Rydell's "colorfully" entitled thread anymore. And what I suggested was that Cheating 101 be introduced as part of a meet 'n' greet and any other basic acting workshop. It's really not something you can learn from reading. Your *body* needs to learn it.
Listening to a whisper while you're trying to talk is almost impossible, unless you're a TV news reader. Being physically moved is aggravating not the least because it's a surprise, and tends to piss people off because they don't know what you're doing. But I've watched the Queen gently direct someone to speak to the "good gentles all" and be ignored. Wow, ignoring direct instructions from the Queen. (Someone really IS an egalitarian, aren't they?)
If you want to face the Queen directly, well, ok, I can't stop you. But in that case, could you please stand way far away from her and speak way up.If you're presenting an item, either have a servant give it to her, or make the gift yourself, then back up to that distant position again. It's ok, she can hear you. And so can everyone else. It's not an intimate conversation, it's a show. And at least this way, the audience on the sides can see both of you, you will hear her reactions and be able to respond to them (I think that's a big part of the resistance), and the show will be served. If she wants you to come closer, she'll gesture you forward again. But the primary thing is that it's about the show, it's not about you.
Hmm, I guess you could make a whole workshop out of this, if you had a big enough group! :) -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 9:11 AMLest anyone think, "Oh heckadoodles, I never go near the Queen and Court - the cheating out of which you speak is dogs bollocks to me," I have seen numerous promising looking bits and interactions spoiled by people being unaware that this isn't TV, and their brilliance is not being shared with the audience around them.
I fear the remedials are going to take a lot of work, but I also think it's worth it. One of the thrills of theatre - on a stage, or with the immersive stuff we do - is that wondeful sense of inclusion that physical characterisation, cheating out, inhabitation of the paying area and projection all conspire to create.
I'm reminded of attending a performance of The Tempest at a big, professional rep company here in SF, and the main excitement was that Prospero would be played by an enormously famous TV (and to a lesser extent, film) actor. It was excruciating! He spoke directly to the actors onstage who (theoretically, at least) knew the lines. He didn't always remember to project or use his entire body, and I was ready for him to dissolve into the thin, unpopulated air long before he shuffled back to the Green Room. The screen - both large and small - has ruined both acting and audience. -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 11:20 AMI meant to mention that, too. Cheating out isn't just for presentations. It's the stuff of live theatre. It's more of a challenge in-the-round, but there are techniques for that too. -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 11:43 AMI can teach the basics of staging for stage and street in a 1 1/2 hour workshop.
Acting is a whole course of study.
That's why the missus and I teach Physical Characterization workshops so that people at very least LOOK like they're acting.
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 1:20 PMFor aural and visual learners, here's my class on staging (I think I had 6 people attend at Ren Symposium... I won't be teaching it again):
www.spacerider.net/stagingatfaire.pdf -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 10:06 PMNo! Please do teach it again. This past symposium was my first, and I truly started with the most basic classes I could plop myself into.
Next year I plan/hope to spend more time and hit more classes - including yours!
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 1:57 PMI'd like to clarify a couple of points here:
Staging is the selection , design, of a theatrical performance which includes, set design, props, lighting design, stage business, hand props and placement of actors on the stage
Blocking is the placement and movement of actors in the theatrical performance space
Anyone who is serious about acting and the craft of acting cannot solely depend on workshops at a symposium or renaissance faire to cover the basics of core acting. Fortunately, we live in the state of California where there are acting classes everywhere. Even community colleges offer economical basic courses. But, if you are in a position of teaching a basic workshop in acting, or are a director of a troupe or guild, here is a small glossary of stage terms to share with your cast taken from musicals101.com:
Stage Terms
To get your actors from one area to another, these theatrical terms are time-tested time savers. They've been used by everyone from Fosse to Ziegfeld, and quite likely by Shakespeare too. Have your cast and crew learn and use them –
Cross - move from one area to another ("Cross from Center to Up Left")
Dress the Stage - balance the stage picture
Cover - block the audience's view of a person or object
Full Front - face the audience straight on
Closed Turn - turn one's back to the audience
Open Turn - turn towards the audience
Open Up - turn more fully towards the audience
Profile Left or Profile Right - face completely to the left or right. You can also state this in fractions ("Half profile left," "a quarter profile right," etc.
Move Off - leave the stage ("Move off Right")
Move On - enter the stage ("Move on from Up Left")
Give Stage - withdraw to a less obvious position
Take Stage - move to a more prominent position
It may seem annoying to teach the cast and crew this vocabulary, but get it done during the first week of rehearsals. The days that follow will be easier for everyone, and using professional stage terminology gives amateurs a greater sense that they are taking part in a genuine theatrical experience. When they talk like pros, it is easier to get them to think and behave like pros.
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 2:20 PMhmmm...I was always more of a "HEY YOU, GET YOUR ASS OVER THERE" kinda guy... guess we know why I am just at The Well. -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 3:55 PMI think you are wonderful!!! But, why is it always just your ass that gets invited places? -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 6:24 PMSorry Roxanne...can't subscribe to the "Theatrical Staging 101' concept.
Unfortunately, these folks can't seem to get the simple things..
Never confuse the already confused with facts!
Dinosaur
[saddly shaking head] -
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Re: Cheating out
Tue, June 3, 2008 - 10:09 PMGail, I hesitate to respond to this because I don't know you personally. Do you mean to imply that we newbies are unfortunately unable to comprehend simple things, and are already confused with facts?
Or do you mean to address your comments to others? -
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 7:36 AM"Cheating out" is standard theatre jargon for opening yourself up to the audience. It's nothing specific to faire.
I had a few funny minutes during last weekend when I was trying to get some of our people to do it, but I tend not to use the term "cheat out" because I don't assume everyone knows what I mean. They didn't understand my descriptions or gestures or shifting them around until somebody said "Oh, you want us to cheat out?"
And they did so.
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 11:22 AMTo the Stage Terms I would add:
Up Stage - Away from the audience
Down Stage – Toward the audience
Stage Left – Left while facing the audience (also Audience Right)
Stage Right – Right while facing the audience (also Audience Left)
I know that many know these terms, but, I’m sure that some don’t. I can’t count the number of times I’ve told someone that something is Stage Right and they have gone to the Audience Right or said that something goes Down Stage only to get a blank stare.
/semi-sarcasim flag on
While the Queen IS upstaging you, resist the temptation of letting her get away with it and face the audience anyway.
flag off/
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 1:02 PMA terminology is a nice place to start, but when we have 360 degrees of stage, theatah in the roun-dah, dahlin, most of the terms have no relation with which to anchor them-- there is no definable stage in the usual sense of things. Workshops usually shoot for the lowest denominator, because those are the people you're trying to teach. So when you burden those lowest denominator people with lots of theater terms which are essential if you're being directed, and they go into situations where they will never be directed...
With the exception of the queen, I don't see these formally staged events around fair very much, where the audience sits on bales and watches actors improvise. For stage shows, sure. Absolutely. And the people in stage shows usually have theater experience or should learn these terms as they are relevant to their situation.
So, how can we adapt these terms to street work? Do we need to? If we're teaching Joe Peasant theater terms, which he'll never hear again until he takes a workshop next year (of the same thing, if he doesn't take Country Dance instead because "they taught a lot of stuff I didn't need or use," will it just be a lot of terms of art which aren't relevant to 99% of the interactions?
When Ry is seeing all the people in need of cheating out, it's a unique situation. Think for a moment: Is there anything else at fair like the queen and court area, where there's an assumed focus and presence and a (possibly) seated audience?
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 1:15 PMOftentimes guild spaces are set up like stages with their front line and/or fence as the downstage edge and their pavilion as a proscenium.
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 2:24 PMActually, I belonged for five years to a repertory company that used a theatre in the round. The terms do apply. You cannot possibly be in full view of the audience all the time in a 360 degree situation. Rarely does the audience crowd you in a perfect circle. Find the bulk of the audience and target your action there. Trust me, the stragglers behind you will move if they want another view. You attempt to give your self a natural backdrop ( which will change during the bit) such as a tree, a bench, or another character. If you are performing for the queen, you assume that your natural backdrop is the queen, because you are not actually performing for her. Thirdly, you block more dynamically, using crossing and counter-crossings. Making sure you give a balanced view to the audience. Think of the three ring circus. That has a 360 degree audience. The blocking is dynamic and balanced.
It is the job of the director/instructor to make sure your actors have these tools so they can direct themselves when the situation arises. And guild directors have to rehearse this with their groups until it becomes almost second nature.
A musician who wishes to play in an ensemble, needs to know basic musical terms in order to communicate with a conductor and/or fellow musicians. Any actor wishes to play with other actors should learn basic terms so that you can effectively communicate in the same language.
And, I need to say this. There are a lot of workshops offered at the fairs that I have worked. I have been acting for many years. And I have ALWAYS, ALWAYS found something in every workshop that I can use. Someone who says that they aren't learning anything in the classes that are offered, isn't listening, isn't applying or is extremely arrogant. Wax on/Waxoff
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 2:30 PM<<When Ry is seeing all the people in need of cheating out, it's a unique situation>>
No, it's not. Every single interaction one is having, in the streets, in a guild yard, &c should be seen and heard by the audience, even if it is en passant. You should be "taking stage" physically and vocally for every bit that you do. The interaction with the APQ is simply a larger version of what should be happening constantly -
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 2:46 PMAgreed. Too many people do not get the concept that whatever you are doing in the streets when you are in view of the audience is "a bit", is "acting", is "entertainment" (hopefully). You are on stage when you are in the streets. You should not be talking about what you bought at WalMart, you should be talking about how Lady Berkeley snores and WHY did you get put in her room or how Mistress Evans is always overcharging for her eggs, that her eggs are not any different from Gammer Blackstones eggs or whatever.
The whole Faire should be like that cool telephone in the general store in Disneyland on Main Street that you can pick up and listen in on peoples conversations. You need to open up these "private" conversations so the audience can hear them. -
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 3:11 PMI agree... and I admit.. sometimes I slip.. but I do try.
I have to say.. I do hate people saying things like... Hey.. when my shift is over (in audible vicinity of the audience) I am going to go call my girlfriend on the cell and have a cigarette
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 3:53 PM<<The whole Faire should be like that cool telephone in the general store in Disneyland on Main Street that you can pick up and listen in on peoples conversations. >>
That's a really good analogy. I know for a fact that a lot of audience loves that sense of "listening in."
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 5:26 PMI don't agree. Perhaps you're thinking of solely actor on actor, but in my conversations in character with customers, most are done for that one customer. If I, instead of speaking to the customer in a natural way, were to shout at them from 10 feet away, and then begin to apply Mad Stagecraft to make the gig into a Performance, it will not look or feel organic or real to the customer. I'd rather the customer walks away with suspension of disbelief intact while having been entertained, than they be entertained by what seems like an artificial construction where they are used to be the entertainment for the benefit of other paying customers. Do any of you cheat out when you're conversing one on one with a customer? It's one thing to do unnatural stagecraft with other actors for the purpose of performance, and another entirely to do it with a customer. Go ahead, turn your back on the customer, see how long they stay for that conversation. (Reducto ad absurdum, I know.)
Then there's application of Mad Stagecraft to the street when you DO want it to be blocked right. All the stuff about more formal theater stops being relevant and doesn't apply unless certain rare conditions are met -- 1) you have something like a loud noise or shout to establish focus, because people won't shut up to listen to your gig or pay attention to it, 2) you'd best have something to follow which is either action oriented or very interesting like a song or music, and 3) you must not drop the focus for even a heartbeat. Otherwise, that gig is like a cloud of breath in a blizzard.
When I was walking from place to place in Southern, I was observing the crowd, and at the most crowded times, it was complete chaos and very loud. It was hardly a place for standing back 10 feet and having the theatrical conversation about your chickens; your gig got mashed down by the hordes trampling through the middle.
As for gigging in guild areas... that's just plain funny! You were joking, right, Ry? Customers don't go into guild areas unless you whip 'em and threaten their children. -
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Re: Cheating out
Wed, June 4, 2008 - 7:30 PMTwo things I would like to mention. Most performers that come into Court think they are performing for the Queen and just don't understand it is for the costumer. Which brings me to my other point....costumers DO come into Court, maybe not so much into the other guild areas but they do come into court...even when nothing of note so to say is happening. I agree with Therese and Dre the customer does like to feel they have walked in on those private conversations, it makes them feel like a part of something.
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