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If you could add one thing that is missing from your faire (cost not being a factor), what would it be?
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 4:19 PMCost not being a factor? A wardobe department. Like a real Hollywood studio costume crew and warehouse.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 4:22 PMEnglish people?
No, but seriously - more rituals, both old Pagan and Christian. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 1:12 PMor Pagan-become-christian rituals, superstitions, lucky charms, and so on. I'm sure there are no unadulterated pagan rituals in this country that's been christian for a thousand years.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 7:19 PMA permanent fair site that replicated the grounds of an Elizabethan country fair....
This would ideally include boundaries of mature hedges, a few crofter's residences, a gentleman's country house & outbuildings of the small sort, and a pond with mill. The sight-lines would be clear of any modern distractions, the plants in view would all be based upon mature specimens of English countryside, and the micro-climate weather would resemble England during fair season. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 7:35 PM
Midgets..they're all the rage. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 7:39 PM
OK..seriously, this is a great question for which I cannot give just one answer.
And I don't need anyone to point out to me that the word Midget is not PC and the correct term is 'little people'. I don't care. I still want a midget. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 8:31 AMI think we would call them dwarves (or dwarfs) -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 6:59 PMDwarfs, please..dwarves would be looking to hire hobbit burglars ;-)
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 11:00 PMMore importantly than PC is that it's not HC (historicitously correct).
The OED (thank God they haven't noticed that I graduated) has:
midget: 19th century
dwarf: back to earliest Old English, found in Saxon mythology
from Midsummer (Helena taunting Hermia): puppet, dwarf, minimus, bead, acorn (the last two apparently used metaphorically, as there is no mention in the OED of them being generally used to describe small humans).
also, we have homuncule (later homunculous) from the 1650's
and the under-used "mannikin" (various spellings) from the early 1500's - a cognate of the French mannequin... -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 11:37 PMI'm not really concerned with historical correctness when I'm simply making a joke. Midget is just a fun word.
Molly. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Thu, July 2, 2009 - 12:20 AMNo worries. I was kinda being facetious.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 7:36 PMI second this one. :-)
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 7:37 PMI'd like to add livestock - widen the streets so we could actually have flocks of animals being herded through (when appropriate) and knights could ride into town on their horses.
I'd like to also add more trees so we can have shaded grounds to work in.... cooler "more period" temperatures (yes, climate control !) so our costumes (when designed with period styles) will be COMFORTABLE out in the streets... and heck, while we're throwing coins in the magic wishing well of a Faire that will never be... how about salaries for the actors!
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 8:29 PMMore actual English Elizabethan theatre (I speak particularly of RPFS) - a rotating selection of several Shakespearean plays in their entirety, plus Marlowe and the others.
www.luminarium.org/renlit/rendrama.htm
Maybe a few morality plays (or "moral interludes") thrown in as well. And Punch and Judy. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 9:19 PMHad Punch and Judy at Valhalla (Yay!)
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Thu, July 2, 2009 - 2:16 PMI remember a year or two shortly after we moved to Devore (we were still around the lakes), when every guild was required to put on a masque and given stage time to do so. It was up to the guilds to pick them/create them/ cast & rehearse them and it was delightful to see what everyone had come up with!
As usual, it was a lot of work done by a small group of people, which is my theory as to why it didn't last, but I loved it.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 10:38 PMPermanent site, please... -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 10:59 PMI third that - you need a permanent site to really create an environment that can actually maintian the illusuion of being in another time.
A well-funded costume department comes in a close second.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 7:48 AMAll of these (except for the livestock unless it is contained or wearing diapers) and I would add as an addendum to the costume trailer to cover everyone (actors, boothies, ale stand, etc) and have all those costumes be period and class correct. Also pay for all the actors and a theatrical place that serves real hot food to any actor that wants it. Oh and flush toilets for all. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 8:34 AM"(except for the livestock unless it is contained or wearing diapers)"
I was thinking of a good girl driving her charges down the lane, but then I had the vision of little bits (and big bits) of goose turd green poo (available for color comparison) in the same lane and, well, it's a lovely picture.
I vote for a complete costume department and travel allowances. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 10:01 AMI grew up on a farm, poo is something you adjust to rather quickly. Soon it isn't really even something you think about unless you have a really *bad* mishap with a fresh cow pie.
It's all just recycled hay! *grin* -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 1:07 PMI don't think I'd get used to my velvet hem dragging through it real quick. Plus the audience may have a lower tolerance for that kind of authenticity. Not to mention the health department. :-0 -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 1:23 PM*chuckle* Then again, there would be far fewer velvet hems about...
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 1:10 PMOh and of course, I meant to type "goose girl" not "good girl".
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 9:04 AMif you are going to go for pay.. .. pay for everyone. Hell.... Benefits too.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 9:22 AMYeah. If money's not a problem, how about money?
How about a participant's handbook? One which defines what the show is, what the theatrical reality is. Illustrate what a faire was in the context of the time and its impact on the local community. Costume and language standards. Performance guidelines and standards. Perhaps character quizzes to help people flesh out their roles.
Three items of required reading for each participant:
The Participant's Handbook
Secara's "The Compendium of Common Knowledge"
Izzo's "The Art of Play" -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 10:43 AMThis!
I would agree with contained livestock, with appropriate Humane Association permits, and someone who knows WTH they're doing with the animals. Just parking someone next to hogs (for instance) is not safe for the hogs, which can be very sensitive to sun.
But yes ... mainly some handbooks, some character backstory, etc.
A cohesive show. Wouldn't it be swell? Heck, I might even come back.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 5:18 PMI didn't say pay for everyone because boothies and ale stand workers are already paid. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 6:15 PMWow,
It is amazing how many of these things are already in existance at some faires. ...including handbooks, guidelines...we are fortunate enough to have Punch and Judy and one of the morality plays.
I agree wholeheartedly with the costume department, the permanent site, flushable toilets and consistant costume guidelines for all participants from all departments. That alone would make such a huge difference. It all starts with how passes are distributed. If it was all up to me, I would certainly change that.
Shade in every place that it is needed also makes a big difference.
One thing working with jousters for many years has taught me is that animals moving down crowded streets with patrons is NOT a good idea. People touching, aggrevating, tripping over and possibly getting stepped on by animals, not good......and shit is something that NO ONE wants to have to clean up, especially when they are at faire....not even the squires. Animals tucked to the side in areas for viewing safely, Yes...walking amongst the crowds, not so much.
As much as I would like to pay a lot more to the active guild members or the volunteers that actually make valuable contributuons, there are also a lot of people that don costumes, come to faire and walk around and play and flirt and drink and consider themselves actors and feel that they should get paid for their presence. I disagree. I liken it to paying people to dress up and go out to their favorite dance club or bar. For some people, faire is not really much more than that. Of course, no one thinks that applies to them.
There are so many more things I could list, but I agree with most of what has been said so far.
M
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 12:01 PMMore actors doing the day to day stuff--housewives doing shopping, teenagers flirting in a period appropriate way, livestock being sold (it is a faire, after all), maybe a servants hiring place, with dickering going on, vendors selling what would really be sold during the time--vegetables, ribbons, cheeses, cloth, etc. This would be a theatrical gig--not selling to public. I don't know how you'd keep the two---real vendors and "actor" vendors apart, but it would be cool. Storylines being acted out that came from before "faire day" and continued after--for example, two farmers wrangling in the streets over a disputed sheep sale that happened last week, or last year. Someone getting hired into a noble house, and his/her family being all excited and bustling about.
Stuff like that.
And on a practical note:
Flush privies
Seats with backs
Some permanent buildings--like taverns and inns with shade gardens -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Wed, July 1, 2009 - 12:04 PMThe Tudor Group in England does a lot of this, although only for one weekend. But they have everyone who would be on the manor --not only the noble family (only a few people) but also the cooks, bakers, pig caretakers, weavers, laundresses, farm workers in the fields, etc.--all doing what they would have been doing in that particular year, at that particular time of year. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Thu, July 2, 2009 - 2:20 PMKentwell, too. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Thu, July 2, 2009 - 4:04 PMKentwell for sure!
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Thu, July 2, 2009 - 8:49 AMSharon, you said:
"Storylines being acted out that came from before "faire day" and continued after--for example, two farmers wrangling in the streets over a disputed sheep sale that happened last week, or last year. Someone getting hired into a noble house, and his/her family being all excited and bustling about. "
Just want to point out also in addition to what Molly said about what we do at PFP, that we also do this every fair day in the merchant & trademen guild ('middle class"), St Lukes.
You should come check it out. Maybe you'd want to come back and enjoy fair again. Others have. :)
Thanks,
Val
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Thu, July 2, 2009 - 10:25 AMHmm... many more musicians! And, again, if money is not an object ..then perfect acoustics for every stage and tilt yard! Also I'd like a dance floor for Court.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Thu, July 2, 2009 - 12:00 PMA fucking castle. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Thu, July 2, 2009 - 1:18 PMA re-creation of The Globe.
A big ACTUAL Shakespearean stage edifice, to mount actual plays of the Period, with " groundlings" , muso gallery, etc. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Thu, July 2, 2009 - 1:28 PMA pageant wagon with special effects. Much more likely to be at a faire.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Thu, July 2, 2009 - 2:21 PMIsn't that what the whorehouse is for? Maybe that should be the new name... Welcome to the Fucking Castle! -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Thu, July 2, 2009 - 4:05 PMI am glad I wasn't the only one confused by the castles use...*grin*
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 9:13 AMWith a Grail-shaped beacon on the roof? -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 11:38 AMBad, evil, naughty Zoot! -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 12:04 PMLook, let me go back in there and face the peril. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 1:46 PMNo it's too perilous. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:02 PMLook, I'm a knight, I'm supposed to get as much peril as I can.
We return you now to the actual topic, since that conversation has picked up again..
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 1:53 PMGlobe style theatre (the New Globe in London has plenty of research available)
Snake Oil sellers
Hazel Nut Sellers
Flushies
Assuming we want customers, no animals in street, Customers won't want shoes to be fouled.
Permanent site so we can keep getting better.
With all booth, guild and other areas having electric & water for behind the scene stuff.
paved roads... not cobble, it's hard to take a wheel chair over cobbles. Or even over straw or pea gravel.
Trees both for shade and fruit/nuts
Underground high-road, like Disneyland. To move stuff and get onto stages on time.
Carriages to get from parking to front gate.
Garbage cans that lower into the ground to be emptied.
Invisible street lights for after hour work (without customers).
Permanent stages so no dancer, etc. can fall through
Permanent camping facilities with bbq pits/racks, water, etc. for participants, no where near customers.
Integrated Id system so workers/participants can prove they belong and can keep track of training and skills, etc.
Free Kitchen for workers/participants, with basics free... extras can be extra.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 3:37 PMOne thing I miss at RPFS has to do with the approach. Used to be the Burma-shave time travel signs (1990...1890...1790...1690...1590) and other things that would help the customers make the transition before they even got into the parking lot. Now, the approach looks more like a motocross, with large vinyl beer signs and all, and the front gate show is about it, as far as setting the scene.
So, bring back the time-travel signs; the carriage ride option from the parking lot; (let's see, how does Disneyland do it?)...? -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 5:12 PMI loved those!
The ones from Berdoo were fun too. Friends in the sign shop made me my own that says "Would you be Lady Southampton?" -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 11:31 PM
Cheshire, I love your suggestions! As a Patron, I especially liked the one with the Globe Style Theatre, the permanent site, and (eee!) invisible lights!
My idea is: (and I have no idea if this would be legal etc.) What about having faire last longer, say till 9:00pm? There could be torches, campfires, and the previously mentioned lights. That would look so cool, but then it would be pretty dangerous, and if you got drunks or someone messing with the torches, things could get out of hand real fast.
Just curious, why DOES faire close at 6:00 or 7:00? I mean, besides people getting tired, any other reason? -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Fri, July 3, 2009 - 11:49 PMWe actually host at least one 'late night' every year at Koroneburg in SoCal; there is a great cannon/gun demo (damn they look cool when you can really see the muzzle flash!), guild encampments having dinner and generally doing what folks would do once the sun went down and light became limited. Given our Spring schedule, things don't tend to get *too* dark, but dark enough to bring out the covered lanterns and have some nice encampment fireside story telling, etc. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 12:12 AMI don't know about anyone else, but I get pretty wiped out by the time 6:00 comes around. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 2:42 PMWell, maybe if we worked in shifts, but it's already over 10 hour-day with the hours open plus a bit before and after to set-up and stow it away.
That makes for really long days! We'd have to become less personal, like Disneyland, with "employees" and time-cards, etc.
And I don't know of any city that would allow us torches without a lot more insurance and a better fire system in a forest. And torches don't really put out much light. Neither do contained lanterns with or without flicker bulbs. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 3:45 PMFairy lights in the trees.
I was told (by someone who had been there) that there is, or was, a faire in Wyoming that customarily stays open after dark.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Sat, July 4, 2009 - 2:46 PMI'd make it the "New Spain Ren Fair." That way, the Southern California landscape would play itself. Tremendous accuracy.
Of course it would be 1542, and everyone would speak Spanish or Chumash. Herds of deer, wonderful armor, acorn meal.
Vive de largo Nova Espania!
H
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 12:16 PMThe lovely Alexandria was perusing this thread and mentioned something that I don't think anyone has mentioed yet: Fire.
Specifically, fire for real period cooking and baking demonstrations going on all day, ideally things that could actually be eaten by the patrons. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 8:20 AMIf you are cooking things for people other than yourself, Board of Health permits are required. Robin Collins used to go a wonderful cooking demo at small faires, making pease porridge and the like ... but it was absolutely *not* allowed to be served to anyone other than guild members due to insurance issues. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 8:47 AMRobin was our provider of, breakfast, dinner, and supper (on Saturdays) at the cottage at Blackpoint. There we had a Fire inside and an oven outside. I never did get that oven to bake bread correctly. I also had my plan to, dispatch, pluck and clean, and cook, chickens vetoed by management.
Yes, chickens come from Safeway in little packages. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 9:26 AMNo they don't! They come from the same factory that makes McNuggets dontyaknow?
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 11:13 AMSure, but having a site where we can have those things back for ourselves would be nice.
We used to have a period bread oven, a working forge, and a fire pit for our own guild's cooking and working. Irwindale won't let us have that anymore. We have a smaller forge now that doesn't allow us to make the same stuff we used to and we can't cook anything out there unless we set up a bbq in the back stage area. I don't know what it's like at other faire sites but we are far more restricted in our demonstration arts than we used to be.
A permanent site is my dream, but please let it be somewhere where we can set up our areas to be more period than we're allowed now.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 12:46 PMI would love to see some sort of way to educate patrons about the historical context that (hopefully) everyone would be talking about. It would be a way to connect people with historical events that are usually just glossed over in history classes and would give people an easy way to interact.
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Sun, July 5, 2009 - 4:45 PMAn actual harbor into which sails Sir Frances, all the privateers and sailors. -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 2:22 AMWell , if we're wishing for harbours, how about cool English weather, rolling green hills (from all that rain), a manor house and farm, and no attack squirrels? -
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Re: For discussion: What would you add?
Mon, July 6, 2009 - 2:23 AMOh, and a river. Rivers are nice.
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