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I've been seeing the usual raves from participants on various forums about how much fun they're having, what cool parties they're going to, the various memorials, how happy they are to be with their family / community, what they plan on eating and pretty much everything besides the process of presenting history to the public in an engaging and entertaining fashion.
How are the Snobs finding it from a historical / theatrical standpoint?
How are the Snobs finding it from a historical / theatrical standpoint?
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SF Bay Area
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Re: NCRF
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 2:45 PMOK, here is a brilliant thing and I must with pride say it came out of my workshop class.
Imagine my surprise when I see 2 members of another group with pink hearts with arrows through them pinned on their tunics greet me. As any good snob knows - Erik of Sweden had his peeps attire so and Liz & her girls mocked them behind closed doors. A brilliant combo of history and entertainment.
So proud that they took it on themselves to (a) get this from the class and (b) use it. They will be continuing it in the coming weeks.
Also I have added the real Golden Speech but into Queen Show. It is cut but the speech we have been using for 30 odd years is someones interpretation of it and not Elizabeths real speech. I put it back.
Still fighting the good fight on the correct usage of Shire and eliminating Nay not as a few people can tell you as I correct them (in a theatrical manner).
Honestly, not blow smoke up anyones ass but this is the best year ever. You HAVE to come out Rydell! -
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Re: NCRF
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 5:29 PMI wish I was able to - We just moved and it will take many weekends of unpacking to get our place habitable. With Folsom and Dickens looming, we're jealously guarding what free time we have left.
Honestly - why does it seem like the participants can't wait for the faire day to be over so that they can do what they REALLY came to do?
Maybe I'm just a sucker and I'm working too hard while everyone else is just around to party? -
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Re: NCRF
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 5:33 PMThere must be some other way for people to go camping, dress in funny clothes, get wasted, engage in cheap sex, go to theme parties and hang out with a vast misfit community -
Maybe they should extend Burning Man to six weeks. -
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Re: NCRF
Thu, September 24, 2009 - 7:59 AM>>There must be some other way for people to go camping, dress in funny clothes, get wasted, engage in cheap sex, go to theme parties and hang out with a vast misfit community -
Maybe they should extend Burning Man to six weeks. <<
It already exists, Rydell: SCA War with the "benefit" of no audience.
Personally, I'd rather have an audience to dance for and interact with. I know better than to have more than maybe one alcoholic beverage during the day. As far as after hours activities, dinner and visiting with people I rarely see is nice, but then I'm old. However, way back in my youth when Faire was at Agoura I was more about the daytime activites then as well, -
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Re: NCRF
Thu, September 24, 2009 - 8:02 AMI may just be getting a false impression based on the content of what I've seen on line, which is that everyone seems to be working the faire for something other than working the faire. -
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Re: NCRF
Thu, September 24, 2009 - 8:25 AMI hear ya. Just remember like Val said, most of us that are actually working are not on-line a lot (unless like me you are unemployed). We just don't have the time to comment since we are too busy with the show. Trust me that these people are in the minority and if they are one of the handfull of people that are in the back 40 goofing off and then keeping people awake at night with their personal party, I assure you they are pretty much distained by the rest of us.
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Re: NCRF
Thu, September 24, 2009 - 4:56 PMNO. Don't send anymore of the "I want to be at burning man all the time" people to SCA events.
There have been plenty of folks who turn up Pennsic over the years thinking that. Luckily, their numbers tend to decline somewhat when the economy's tight, leaving the rest of us to enjoy our historical event in peace. (and dance and interact with each other)
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Re: NCRF
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 8:52 AM"Honestly - why does it seem like the participants can't wait for the faire day to be over so that they can do what they REALLY came to do?"
"There must be some other way for people to go camping, dress in funny clothes, get wasted, engage in cheap sex, go to theme parties and hang out with a vast misfit community"
I'm not sure which faire you're refering to, but it certainly isn't the one I'm attending. Personally, I gig in the streets from opening until 3 pm when I have to get dressed for my afternoon stage show. All the folks I hang with are out in the streets entertaining the crowds. After hours, most Saturdays I share a few drinks with friends before hitting the cot and crashing.
Yes there are parties on site, but none of them this year have been huge from my observation. And when I pass by one, for every person I see there that know, there are 20 that I don't know. Which always seems odd to me because I do spend a good amount of time getting to know and interacting with numerous folks from the various departments. Go figure! I guess the freaks really do come out at night. Just not where I hang out at.
And shame on you for mentioning the memorials in your rant! That was a low blow and uncalled for. I went to Jerry's and I'd bet hard cash that everyone there would have prefered to be laughing at some gig with him, or sharing a drink or perhaps a song with him.
Personally, I think the after hours "scene" has come a long way since the so called days of drunken debachery. And it's sad that a few bad apples who have nothing better to do with their time than dress in scanty clothing, post pictures and commentary all over the internet, and make the general public think we're a bunch of misfits are the ones that get all the air time. They should get a fricking life and grow up. The rest of us are just too busy.
NOTE: This content of this perspective reflect the thoughts and feelings of the commentator alone and do not necessarily reflect that of other participants, the show producers, or the faire community at large.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant... -
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Re: NCRF
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 10:18 AMI certainly don't want to knock people having a good time, and after a long day of what we do, everyone deserves to blow off steam.
I'm only talking about the impression I get from reading various online forums. If you examine the content, very little of it is actually about the faire. You will find this is consistent with EVERY faire.
I WANT a different impression, but I have nothing on which to base one. I seem to be running one of the few forums that actually addresses the content of the show rather than the peripheral festivities and community aspects.
Oh, and I lost friends too. -
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Re: NCRF
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 10:40 AMThe best way to get a better impression is to come see with your own eyes and form your own opinion. Try not to be an armchair critic. I know. That's hard to do. But you know all of us better than that!
We love you Rydell. It's sad that you have been unable to bless us with your presence this year. One of these years we'll get you to join us for the full season. But until then, mark your calendar for next year and save the date!
*HUGS*
Kitty -
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Re: NCRF
Thu, October 15, 2009 - 10:50 AMI can't criticize if nobody's going to talk about what's actually happening., and I have refrained from making any statements because of a severe lack of info. Would love to have made it, but life intervened heavily.
My presence a blessing?
BWAHAHAHAHA! -
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Re: NCRF
Mon, October 19, 2009 - 1:55 PMHey, am I chopped liver? I posted the Snob stuff first thing. Do we just need more opinions from that perspective?
Let's see.... other cool gigs with history backdrop... The Queen pulling the charter for the Guildhall which prevents them from conducting any business until they are current with their back rents to Lady Derby. The Germans actually finding a way to introduce the Hanseatic League background without making people's eyes glaze over, continuing to correcty incorrect usage of "nay not", "Lord Mayor" and Shire.
This year we also had more guild to guild interaction as well as booth/ale/entertainment interaction. Court even had representatives from each ale stand play the boat game in Glade in the late afternoon.
The washerwomen were making home based face cream and using it on themselves and the village children - to their great joy. The Mongers always have their great morning market but I saw more people reacting in a positive manner to their food. Showing people that, yes, this is food and what we EAT on a day to day basis.
While the Joust wasn't very period, the Scots camp was right by the path to the joust seating. I was told by some of their guild members, there were able to answer questions about historical weapons, battles and daily life. The Germans were also very good with giving demos and giving customers access to what they were doing.
Were there some things that could have been improved, sure. But honestly this year was the best so far and it just keeps getting better. For the most part, our whole cast (crew included) CARE about what we are doing.
For the few bad apples that give the wrong impression as Kitty described, I have no time to be bothered with such immature behaviour. I'm too busy giving the paying customers a great show to pay them any mind. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: NCRF
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 1:17 PMI'm glad to see this. It helps bleach my brain.
Why?
One of my otherwise intelligent friends on Facebook posted a photograph of herself with two scantily clad men painted up with leaves (apparently from some sort of fey encampment) and said that this was the quintessential/definitive Renaissance Faire experience for her. :-/
I responded that I remembered when the definitive Renaissance Faire experience was a "time travel" experience into Tudor England and not being groped by some yutz in a loincloth ... -
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Re: NCRF
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 3:51 PMThat would most likely Oberon and Underon from the stage show "Suspended Reality." Just a guess, as they're the only two I can think of that were covered in leaves. -
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Re: NCRF
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 5:20 PMThat is Oberon and Cobweb. The show is great. The performers are fabulous and honestly I don't think they are that bad. In fact, when the faire took a chance on stepping out of the box with this show, it met some resistance but then people got on board with it and it was picked up by Southern in a modified form. Believe you me, I see FAR worse (as far as "non-period" costume goes) in the vast majority of other faires. They have evolved their show each year to make it better and better. If she posed with those great guys I say that is one lucky lady. -
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Re: NCRF
Tue, October 20, 2009 - 9:56 PMI don't think the point here is to knock the act. Rather it is to illustrate that this person's "definitive faire experience" has nothing to do with the experience we'd like people to consider "definitive". -
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Re: NCRF
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 6:45 AMThank you, Rydell. You got my point in one.
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Re: NCRF
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 12:42 PM"Believe you me, I see FAR worse (as far as "non-period" costume goes) in the vast majority of other faires. "
This is a serious question: why is it that "heck, there are people worse than us" is a benchmark for *anything* (not just faire, but since it was brought up here ...)? I don't find that very inspiring at all. :-( I would think that reaching up would be a far better use of one's time than saying "Well, there are other kids flunking, so my D isn't that bad a grade." :-/ -
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Re: NCRF
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 9:21 AMI said that because that is where your question went. I just responded. You highlighted the appearance of an act as something that was wrong with your faire experience. Ergo, I assumed that was the benchmark you were using. If that was, then I was pointing out that as far as costuming goes, there are far worse examples out there.
If you want to talk about actual performance, then that is another benchmark. I personally am always raising the bar in my own performance and costume and hope that others do the same. Perhaps you have some examples based on your personal performing/costume experience that can show where things can improve as we all strive to grow and learn. -
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Re: NCRF
Mon, October 26, 2009 - 8:50 AMThank you for your response. I heard this "other kids are doing worse than me" business from my stepson about his grades, and it rankles no matter the venue. The low end of the bell curve should not be the aim, IMO.
I sent a six-page letter to Play Faire Productions after my last visit to NCRF because my experience was so poor. I really don't think it bears repeating in its entirety, but I will share two specific examples. When "greeters" spend all of their time slinging insults at patrons between the parking lot and the *gate,* it gets old quickly -- especially when they all seem to know only one insult. This does not make people feel welcome in the slightest. When the only "gig" one experiences is being surrounded by a bunch of glowering Puritans who invade one's personal space and refuse to move when asked politely -- it took getting really ugly to get them out of my face -- it doesn't improve on matters. So yes, I do have some examples based on my personal experience at NCRF.
That said, if there is going to be an acrobatics show during a time that was a mini-ice age in history, I would think that having scantily clad performers would be Not On. If one is portraying a time period, portray that time period -- don't make exceptions for "cute, buff boys playing Cirque du Soleil with a vaguely period theme." The "Oberon and Underon" business just plays into the anachronistic "lowest common denominator" that we've addressed repeatedly in this forum.
I'm glad to hear that you are always raising the bar for yourself, Deirdre. That's important. -
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Re: NCRF
Tue, October 27, 2009 - 12:16 AMThis job and this forum has taught me that no matter how hard we try there will alwyas be people that prefer to revel in their bitterness. They have no interest in our success. This Tribe is simply a convenient excuse to continue slinging negative insults at an event that they are not current with or even attending.
Several years back, after more drama than any one person should ever have to be put through, I removed an individual who was insulting people at the front gate. He thought he was funny. After all the time I took to try and explain that this brand of attempted humor was not working, I endured a year of being hung out to dry by all of his friends because I pulled him from that position. In fact, I shut down the entire group from doing meet and greet just to safeguard against this kind of rude behavior. I was criticized publicly online and called endless horrible names because i was trying to do my job and protect our faire and our patrons from rude behavior. And here we are, three or four years later and I am still hearing about something that happened five or six years ago. By the way, that individual and his friends don't work our faire any longer, but they do work the faires that Rydell and his group does. (Sorry Rydell, no connection to you personally, but they do work for that company. )
Our puritans are under new leadership the last two years and have done a lot of intense studying and prepping. I am proud of them and I stand behind them. I am also proud to have given Chelsea her first professional gig as an aerialist. She has tried each year to continue to try and adjust her costuming so it works for her physical needs and in the theme of Titania. She is wearing a new flesh colored full body stocking with no actual flesh exposed. Her act brought people into the food court late into the day that were never there before. They patronize our vendors and more people are exposed to the Celtic and Morris dancing on the Port of Call stage which is adjacent.
There was a time when I cared and valued the opinions I would read here. I no longer give a damn about the jaded opinions of those that simply want to remain bitter. We'll survive and prosper and have a damn fine time doing it while we put on a great show.
I have been watching a lot of footage from the good old days of Agoura and Blackpoint and I have to laugh out loud at the repeated assumption that the costuming and show was so "period" compared to now. Seriously, I respect the magic that lived in those days but the notion that everything was once so historically accurate is absurd.
By the way, I brought back Manly Men in Tights with Michael Cawelti this year. Clearly one of the biggest shows at Blackpoint , and I laughed and thought of this Tribe when I heard him use the term, "nay not" in his show.
Molly -
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Re: NCRF
Tue, October 27, 2009 - 7:26 PMTo be fair - count number of topics and posts in this tribe, then count how many of them are direct negative criticisms of your show. I think you will discover a very small percentage...certainly not enough to blast "This Tribe".
Most topics offer historical information, ask questions, try to prompt discussion, and poke fun at some of the more truly heinous examples of faire frivolity. For the most part, things have been constructive or kept in a light vein. -
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Re: NCRF
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 8:49 AMPerhaps contrary to appearances, I keep looking for a reason to go back to NCRF. It is a mistake to assume that I am "not current." I have plenty of friends who still attend NCRF. Each year I hope to read about something that will entice me to return ... or to hear a positive report from a person whose opinion I value where "historicity" is concerned. For the last three years (since I last attended), my *husband's* response is "Just be glad you didn't go ..."; this year, he only went because he had friends who wanted an experienced fairegoer along with them on "pirate weekend" when they attended for the first time. (I have already expressed my opinion of the theme weekends, but will reiterate that I remember when the "theme" was Elizabethan England ...)
When a patron's "definitive Renaissance faire experience" has nothing to do with anything historical, it's beyond disappointing to me. IMO, it should be beyond disappointing to *anyone* participating in the show and trying to do their bit to make the show better/more historical.
Bitter? Not in the slightest; it's a wasteful emotion. I am just tired of being repeatedly disappointed. -
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Re: NCRF
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:42 PMSharon, for all that goes on at NCRF, and for as successful as it is, and for all of participants who DO work it and love it, and the return crowds we get every year, we must be doing something right! Its a damn fine show and no one else is doing something on this scale! We're rocking the industry and the innovative methods of attracting paying customers (e.g. after hours concerts and arialist show, etc.) is helping us to stay alive commercially. If you can think of a better way to make this sort of production work and remain commerically vialble in this economic downturn in America, then, lets hear it, but remember you speaking here to many folks who work very hard to put on this show and are very proud of what they do. Be sensative to that to some degree if you would cuz we can just as easily get our feelings and egos hurt as can you if someone expresses how disappointed they are at something you've worked hard on.
As to the gigging in the streets, Rydell, we continue to get better and better every year and are continually building acting relationships amongst ourselves and becoming more and more comfortable gigging with each other. I personally gig at the ~cough~ Sheep when ever I am able outside of my two procession obligations. Even when no one is around, I'll just hunker down at the front big table and sing a song, pounding my glass or fist as I do and invariably someone and then more come and join me. Its a wonderfully fruitful gigging space at the Sheep. I wish we had a couple more "taverns" in other slower spots.
We in the Dead are becoming more gig oriented too. On the last day, three or four of us, in our bones. went out with a beautifully period wooden bucked and silently and softly kicked it around the village. We got laughs everywhere. Anachronistic? Perhaps. But harmful to historical periodness and overall flavor of the faire? I don't think it was. It was clever, funny and we got laughs everywhere!
Thanks to Gwen of Helena's I now know much more about how to gig with the Puritans and greet them with dripping sarcasm, "How now, Electtttttt!?" cuz they snobbishly call themselves that. We're gigging everywhere and having a blast!
Oh, and the afterhours parties are great in addition to all the great work we do during the day! ~sticks out tongue~
~Kurt -
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Re: NCRF
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 5:58 PMKick the Bucket may not be anachronistic at all - at least the phrase:
www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/218800.html -
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Re: NCRF
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 7:03 PMRebecca, you are a goddess, to be certain.
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Re: NCRF
Wed, September 23, 2009 - 6:48 PMDaaaammmmnnnn grumpy bunny! I think you should toss out those chocolate eggs because someone has spiked them. I haven't seen any of this honestly. Maybe it is because I am old now but all the performers I know (Court, Guard, Lukes, Cuthies, Scots etc.) have been working the streets and the energy is higher than I have seen it. This is honestly the best year in the past 6 thus far.
We also have Bear running security now and things are tightening up. We are cracking down with a fury with people that don't want to work but just party. If you are one of these people and finagled a pass from a booth owner or a guildmaster - it will be pulled. If you don't work and contribute to the show, you don't get to stay.
Honestly, the parties are pretty nil. Let's see - we had our entertainment BBQ on Saturday of Dress Rehersal which was low key. Opening weekend was pretty quiet and mellow. No huge parties. This last weekend we had 2 memorials and Colleen had her birthday party at Andrews booth. No CSG party.
I honestly think the few people you are hearing things from are in the vast minority., You know me and if I saw it, I would have no problem saying it. But I haven't seen it. I've seen great gigs, great costumes (you should see the kirtles and embroiderred coifs over at Lukes), the spinning at Cuthies, the kids militia that Germans has started this year. I have no idea who these people are but I will personally boot them in the junk if I saw them. All I see are hard working performers in the street, in booths & ale stands, hawking and entertaining.
OK - after Dickens we are so having drinks. Really, toss out those eggs. They are bad.
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Re: NCRF
Sun, September 27, 2009 - 8:43 PMOK Rydell, I am going to chime in from the snob-wanna-be standpoint.
From the theatrical standpoint, I would have to say that the gigs I have seen are fantastic. (My only complaint is that the puritans often try to gig at the same time as the Yeoman and it is hard to hear either one.
The energy at the Coughing sheep is higher last year. I am seeing far more customers interacting with the participants in games there. And they tend to draw crowds whenever it happens. As a matter of fact, whenever something is happening at the sheep, a crowd gathers.
Dogberry's school of fencing is performing more "fencing on the rail" which is more entertaining than historical or theatrical.
From a theatrical standpoint I hear from customers that the joust is very theatrical, almost too much so. Most of the customers I have spoken to ask what happened to the Knights of Avalon. The customers were disturbed that maybe there was a contract dispute. they are relieved to hear that the Knights are competing and ask how they did. (Does anyone know how the Colorado tournament went?)
Energy is high among the participants, even when the temperature was high and draining our desire to perform.
I have to agree with Dre assessment about the year being the best so far I have experienced. -
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Re: NCRF
Mon, September 28, 2009 - 10:04 AM"the gigs I have seen are fantastic"
But are they reflective of life in the Elizabethan world? -
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Re: NCRF
Mon, September 28, 2009 - 10:45 AMWell, I for one certainly participated in both ‘ren faire’ gigs and ‘reenactment’ gigs this past weekend when I visited. I have to say, teaching a male customer to fingerloop braid was actually a highlight for me!
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Re: NCRF
Fri, October 2, 2009 - 2:45 PMUm, actually just visited the website for te first time this year...
"Celtic Rock Concert Series"?
Okay, I'm fairly torn, a lot of the people playing are friend of mine, but I have to ask:
Did Culann's Hounds actually do any Ramones covers or not? -
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Re: NCRF
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 12:19 PMThe Celtic Rock Concert Series is after hours and separated from the Faire so we can close down. It is a great way to bring people in who have never been to our faire before, get them hooked with the show and after the show is over, they can watch & dance to a great band.
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Re: NCRF
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 5:40 PMThe Concert Series was handled very well. The only on-site advertising of it was by the entrance to the Tournament Arena, where the concerts take place. If one did not have a valid camping pass, they were ushered out of a gate directly to the parking lot. -
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Re: NCRF
Wed, October 21, 2009 - 5:49 PMOkay I am ready to get yelled at but I don't care. The gigs however fascinating they happened to be were stationed at mostly one end of faire. The food court is a giggers nightmare, and if you do any sort of large gigging in the street you were mostly yelled at by booth owners. The gigs are not always faire appropriate, sorry that is just a fact. We live in a world where the common Elizabethan gig is ignored for anachronistic humor and in answer the gigs have changed to suit our audience. Is that good? Is that what should happen? No comment, it could take weeks. Oh and these lovely gigs are so overcrowded and centralized that you can't make heads or tails of what is going on. Too much vies for the audiences attention in that little village square - Oh yes and it is right next to the main stage. NOT the best decision ever. The best year we've had so far? I hope next year it becomes the best year I can remember - and it is gonna take a lot to do that. Good Night and Good luck.
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Re: NCRF
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 7:18 PM"historical / theatrical standpoint"
What is our basis for comparison - what is our benchmark?
What Renaissance Faire has been the best from a historical / theatrical stamdpoint?
Another related inquiry: has there ever been any Renaissance Faire that fulfills all the expectations of historically correct and theatrically entertaining event (that is still period)?
Thanks,
John -
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Re: NCRF
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 9:10 PM"has there ever been any Renaissance Faire that fulfills all the expectations of historically correct and theatrically entertaining event?"
None that I've ever seen. Not to my satisfaction, anyway. Other opinions may vary on that.
Based on the various shows I have seen, NCRF is doing a pretty good job. There is at least a strong unified vision and a motivated cast.
Even back in the day of the Living History Centre, they had a long way to go. But what they had going for them was that they had education as part of their purpose and guiding vision. Without that, there's (apparently) little impetus for anyone to remain historical.
My benchmark is the faire that happens in my mind.
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