Learning on your own versus classes

topic posted Thu, July 9, 2009 - 3:49 AM by  Cari
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I'm reposting this from Tracy with my response included because I think it is an awesome topic. It fell under FireFly's class listing so I didn't think people would know it was there...

from Tracy:

ugh so i would love to hoop with all you lovely people. But I just don't see the point in paying for something that you can just share with the world!! I've seen Cari's poi/double hoop video and it was just jaw droppingly inspirational but with practice and effort i feel that I could be able to achieve something just as great! If y'all ever just want to get together for a friendly, non business, hoop session let me know. Otherwise happy hooping and bliss to all.

My response:

I absolutely agree with you Tracy! That is exactly the path I have taken and I think the results have been fabulous. I know that during those times in the beginning when I had no one around to show me anything I would have killed for a class. What takes me months to break down and process I can pass on to students in less than 10 minutes. Sometimes it is frustrating to watch things come so easy to others that were very difficult for me but I think that is just my fate in life. That is where I stood with poi and now with hoop. But I get a great satisfaction with knowing that I climbed this ladder on my own and when I get something it means so much more because it was so hard. I love to share what I can when I can and teaching the classes gives me the opportunity to do that guilt free. I can pull away from my tremendous responsibilities and hoop knowing that by getting paid it will make our lives easier. Otherwise, no one would benefit from the journey I have taken because no one would get a chance to see it. You Tube is one way and I don't get to interact with other hoopers which is a huge part of the whole picture. But on that rare occasion that I have free time, I love to hoop jam! And when that happens, I will be sure to post it here on Richmond Hoopers tribe so we can spend some time together in a "friendly, non business, hoop session". Good luck on your hooping journey Tracy, I look forward to seeing your hoop flow in person sometime!
posted by:
Cari
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  • Re: Learning on your own versus classes

    Thu, July 9, 2009 - 11:12 AM
    I posted a response in the other thread but I will post it here too as people may now read this instead of the other thread.

    With love and respect,
    Caroleeena

    You can "just share" anything with the world. Does that mean we should not get paid for anything? What do you do for a living? Couldn't you "just share" that too?

    I must be honest, I, too, was self taught -- originally. Studing with teachers propelled my own learning through the roof. But it came after years and years of being the only hooper in my area. Now I teach. And my students progress faster, farther (which is unsettling) and with less injures than I ever did. I had eight people leg hooping in one class. It took me three years to get that. My students are also more technically proficient now, in a short time, than I was after a long time (I am too. Teaching definitely teaches the teacher.)

    Yes, we can learn anything on our own but if we had to learn everything on our own, imagine how long it would take to learn anything! I, for one, would not have a refrigerator or a car if I had to invent and build these things from scratch. I wouldn't know psychology or medicine. We are all standing on the shoulders of teachers, whether or not we realize it or give them credit.

    I am grateful for those who have already paid the price to learn the things I wish to learn and who are willing and able to pass it on to me. Big props to them.

    Learning in a class has other benefits as well. It is a structured learning environment that also includes the elements of synergy that come from learning in a large group of people. I have a hoop jam every week in Raleigh but people still enjoy my classes and come to them too. Every week. In fact, just last week, one student told me that it was the cheapest mental health care that she could buy. On top of that, you are carving out a space and setting the intention to practice and learn on a regular basis, something that is easy to skip when you're doing it on your own. You are learning in an environment specifically chosen for its learning potential. The teacher is taking time out of their busy schedule, and also from their own hooping and play, to develop curriculum, select and burn music, find the perfect space and pay to rent it, just to teach us. Finally, you are drawing upon lessons they have learned from a variety of sources over a period of years and synergized in the melting pot of their experience, lessons that only they can pass on. You don't have to find and source all those lessons yourself. Someone has already done that work for you. Sometimes, weeks or even years of study can be distilled into one short lesson. (Take the leg hooping example.) Those things are valuable.

    As Cari perhaps unwittingly pointed out in agreeing with Tracy, you are paying for someone's time. Firefly has agreed to make her time available every week, in addition to everything else, and that, too, is valuable. I don't see someone else offering to do that.

    I understand your desire to hoop with other hoopers and learn in an informal environment Tracy but I disagree with posting it here. It feels disrespectful to Firefly. Perhaps you did not mean to undermine her, someone who has gone out on a limb (in a variety of ways) to share with others in a formal learning environment, but this feels undermining and disrespectful to me. Firefly deserves better.

    I know FireFly. I have watched her over the years study and grow as a hooper and I know she has the skills, the passion and the drive to be a good teacher. I know she helped build and works hard to support the hoop community there in Richmond. I think she rocks and I think anyone who has the opportunity to learn under her tutelage is incredibly lucky and blessed. I encourage people to take her class and to support her and all teachers, everywhere. They are an incredibly underappreciated group of people.

    With love and light,
    Caroleeena
    • Re: Learning on your own versus classes

      Thu, July 9, 2009 - 11:41 AM
      hear hear! i am not from Richmond and am only here for the summer so I haven't actually met firefly yet (just joined thsi tribe to find people to hoop with) but I don't see the point in posting something like this on someone's teahcing thread. seems rude. also, i appreciate teachers. if i had to learn everythign on my own, it would take forever. i am grateful for the teachers who find indoor spces and create classes and come each week to teach them.if you wanna learn on yourown, fine, but don't diss the teachers.
      • Re: Learning on your own versus classes

        Thu, July 9, 2009 - 8:08 PM
        I'm not offended by Tracy's comments..she has every right to express her feelings. For me, there's no need to debate or defend on the topic. However, I want to thank those that obvioiusly understand where I have been, what I am doing and what I stand for. Your kind words of encouragement have touched me deeply. I love to hoop...and I share that love freely.


        • Re: Learning on your own versus classes

          Thu, July 9, 2009 - 8:53 PM
          I didn't feel dissed at all and I don't think Tracy was being disrespectful to Firefly. I think Tracy was just stating her opinion and her choice. I'm sure she is frustrated with wanting to hoop and everyone is all tied up teaching "official" classes. I remember the beginning of all this when Hyperfire and I opened our home up to jams. The atmosphere was all about having fun and exploring object manipulation. Those days are way behind us and I think Tracy, as well as others that I have had this very discussion with, miss them. We shared and now we are putting a price on what we have spent years (going on 6 for me) learning and perfecting. I think all of us are just trying to survive and the reality of the situation is if you can provide a service doing something that you love and get paid for it then it is a win situation all the way around. There isn't anything wrong with that. I've been fortunate enough to teach official hoop dance classes for almost a year now in Richmond and the response has been phenomenal. But just because I have broken it down into a class format, lug 50 hoops everywhere and am constantly searching for music doesn't mean that I should forget my roots. I encourage Tracy to take the road she has selected. It is harder and if I get a chance to hoop with her, I'm not going to hold back for fear of giving it away for free. And as long as there is someone there willing to learn, I will continue to teach my classes.
    • Re: Learning on your own versus classes

      Fri, July 10, 2009 - 4:06 AM
      Caroleeena,

      I was supporting Tracy's choice to take the path of self teaching. I wanted to let her know that she will come up with something great and probably greater than anything you, I or Firefly could teach her. There is nothing wrong with her choice and isn't it really awesome that there is even a choice to make. In the beginning you and I didn't have a choice and like you, I rejoice in the opportunity to learn from others both paid and shared. But her choosing to self teach is not disrespecting those of us who do teach. It is her opinion and her choice to share and not take on a paid teacher role. Maybe one day she will find herself in a position not unlike myself, single parent working as a secretary trying to keep a roof over our heads and food in our mouths, and discover that teaching for money is a very pleasurable option to give those she loves most a better life and future. Who knows, but for now it seems she just wishes she could hang with us without paying for it and voiced that opinion. That is what I read. That is the beauty of tribe...interpretations are all over the map.

      Respectfully,
      Cari
      • Re: Learning on your own versus classes

        Fri, July 10, 2009 - 4:14 AM
        The disrespectful part was not in "what" she said....it was in "where" she placed her words. And, her words no matter where they were placed haven't hurt me....I know where my heart is in this, and that's all that matters.
        • Re: Learning on your own versus classes

          Fri, July 10, 2009 - 9:16 AM
          No, there is nothing wrong in one's choice to teach themselves and learn on their own. Yes, it was in the "where" it was posted and the specific choice of words utilized. It seemed directed at a single teacher and class. Tracey's words were, "I just don't see the point in paying for something that you can share for free." and they were posted in the very thread where Firefly was promoting her classes. That seems pretty directed to me. I do see the point and I made those points. Had Tracey started a thread specifically for discussing the value of learning on your own or with a group of people, even if she devalued classes, it would not have appeared to be directed at an individual teacher and there would have been no misunderstandings or hurt feelings. And I say hurt feelings because I know that if that post had been left in a thread where I was announcing one of my classes, it would have hurt my feelings and felt like a slap in my face.

          But, my point was not about the rudeness of the post, specifically, but about the value of classes. I find classes and teachers (of every stripe) very valuable and I felt it was important to make that point and, specifically, to testify on behalf of Firefly as a teacher since the original post seemed directed at her. So I went to some time and effort to point out the value of both Firefly and hoop classes.

          I get that Tracey wants to get together for playdates. I have seen at least three postings here to that effect. I have often wished she lived here so she, and all of you, could join us for our hoop jams. So I have a suggestion. Plan a weekly hoop jam. I suggest organizing and promoting that rather than denigrating a teacher's classes. Our power is always better used in building something than in tearing something down and hoping something new will just spring up in its place. If you want playdates, organize them and show up every week. That's what I had to do with hoop jam but now we have a big hoop jam every week with a dozen or so drummers and 20-40 hoopers and poi spinners but it didn't just happen on its own. It took work and me showing up (for free, I might add, sharing with the world, exactly what Tracey craves) every single week for a year and half. This in addition to finding a park that was right for it, making 30-50 hoops and schleping all those hoops to and fro every single week, even when I feared I would be the only one there or didn't really want to go, but I did it and now the Raleigh Hoop Jam exists. In fact, it thrives. If that's the real desire here, then do the work and make it happen. That's where our true power lies.

          Here's some info I wrote for the city of Charlotte when they were experiencing the same thing you are. It's about how to start a hoop jam. Maybe it will help ya'll start one, grow your hoop community and meet this need. But someone will need to take on the commitment and do the work. (Note this was written back at the beginning of our hoop jam process. It's so much bigger now and no longer requires me to attend every week, which is kind of a relief. Also, we found a gym that let us carry it over through the winter so it is a year round hoop jam):

          Hoop jams are an excellent way to build hoop community. We recently started a weekly hoop jam in Raleigh and it is an amazing success. We've been doing it for six weeks and we have from 4-8 drummers each week and 15-25 hoopers. I want to tell you how I organized it so you can do it too if you'd like.

          First, I had to find a place. My friend Rebecca and I went to several public parks and we ultimately chose Pullen Park. Pullen Park is a park that has a lot of kids during the day but is pretty quiet in the evenings, which is when we'd like to get together. It has a big, flat place where we can hoop and no houses around to complain about the drumming. There are picnic tables, a water fountain and a big shady space. I asked the manager of the park if it would be okay if we had some drummers and hula hoopers meet there each week and he gave us his okay.

          Then I solicited drummers. I contacted the Raleigh Drum Circle as well as local drummers I knew and asked them to help out. Turns out, they loved it! They love drumming for dancers and were anxious to get together and, so far, there have been more every single week.

          Then I posted an announcement on the Raleigh at Play tribe, the Raleigh Hoops tribe, the yahoo groups for Carolina Bellydancers, Raleigh Drum Circle, Caro Burn and on Craig's List. I also put up posters around town at the colleges, the Whole Foods, places like that. You could solicit:
          Charlotte Soul: tribes.tribe.net/charlottesoul
          Charlotte, NC: cltnc.tribe.net/
          Charlotte, North Cackalaka: charlottenc.tribe.net/
          Best of Charlotte: bestofcharlotte.tribe.net/
          plus Carolina Bellydancers and Caroburn. I'd also post to the Transformus tribe.

          (I'd also recommend putting up a poster at the World Dance Center as well as other dance studios, etc.)

          I also take flyers with me to any music thing that I take my hoop with me to hoop. I gave out 30 last Saturday at the Budweiser Outdoor Music Series, which brought out at least 10 new hooprs this past week. Also, bring fliers to each jam so that people who come can give them to their friends. Make sure you invite passers-by to play too.

          I also recommend bringing some beater hoops to share. At least 10 of various sizes. This way, people in the park can play. But be prepared to sell people hoops or tell them how to make them when they get into it. I didn't do this to sell hoops but I've sold a lot of hoops since turning people onto hooping at the Hoop Jam.

          The Raleigh Hoop Jam is Wednesday evenings from 6:30 til dark. It's nice to have something to do during the week. Also, folks travel a lot on the weekends so it's harder to get people to come then I think. Plus, the parks are full of kids! I love kids but I prefer to hoop with at least as many adults as kids.

          So, this is just a suggestion. I'm happy to offer any insight I can to help you get started.
          ____

          So, again, this is just a suggestion and I'm happy to offer any insight to ya'll that I can to help you start one in Richmond. If ya'll started one, I'd suggest posting it on both Richmond hoop tribes, Virginia fire and any meet-up groups in your area. I'd also post fliers at dance studios, art studios, yoga studios, etc. Also, contact your local paper. Have them do a story. Contact the City of Richmond. Have them list it on their city calendar.

          It seems clear to me that this miscommunication grew out of the desire for something like a hoop jam. So make it happen! It is an initial investment of time and money on the front end but it is a service to your community that you can be proud of, that increases health, happiness and friendships, and it even helps promote classes because many people who come will light the fire in their hearts and want to learn in a more structured way. It's a win/win for everyone.

          Hope this helps.

          With love and respect,
          Caroleeena
          • Re: Learning on your own versus classes

            Fri, July 10, 2009 - 10:05 AM
            I see your point about the placement of the topic and can see where it could be mistakenly taken as a slap towards Firefly. I think it is a very interesting topic and felt it needed its own thread away from a promoted class. Caroleeena, you have always been wonderful with freely sharing your experiences and passing them on to help other communities. Thank you. We do have hoop jams here...just not as often as any of us would like. Hopefully, with Firefly settling into Carver Healing Arts Gallery and her commitment to grow the hoop community, we will see more and more of them in the near future. As soon as swim team season and summer school is over, I am definitely going to put together some jams and would love to have a Hooper's Ball at the blue house. I am really looking forward to August! Maybe you can come and hoop with us!
            • Re: Learning on your own versus classes

              Fri, July 10, 2009 - 11:02 AM
              I would LOVE to come hoop with you. I adore Richmond even though it's been a long time since I've been there. And ya'll have an open invitation to visit if you're ever in Raleigh. We have a jam every Wednesday at Pullen Park from 6:30 - 8:30 but even if you're just passing through, I live right off of I-40 and I have a big back yard for playing and a comfy couch for sleeping.

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