I realize that with things going missing from backstage areas it is much more likely that someone with a pass is the thief or theives. But unless anybody actually has proof of said thieves identities could we possibly refrain from making blanket statements about, "how could one of our own," or "it's a shame that one of our faire family," and so on and so on.
In 20 years of doing faire both north and south there has ALWAYS been problems with items going missing. Yes it is a horrible shame that it happens. But for the love of everything you hold holy can we stop pointing fingers in random directions and making paranoid statements.
All of you have seen non-pass holding people in backstage areas at one point or another while you've worked faire so it's entirely possible that someone from outside of faire is responsible for these thefts. Honestly the faire is not a secure location. People come walking along the back line along the lake every weekend. There's been problems in the parking lots with people whom are definately not part of out family. So stop with the baseless accusations. By all means you should be more vigilant with your personal belongings. By all means should the actual theives be caught they should be hung up by their toes and be made to suffer while we await law enforcement to take them into custody.
Most of all keep an eye out for yoursleves and your friends things and do everything reasonable to keep things from walking away. But let us not jump to conclusions without any proof of whom these low down worthless excuses for human beings are. Enjoy the rest of the season wish I could be with you all for the last two weeks but other life obligations must come first for me.
Thank you.
Lance W.
aka Your Friendly Neighborhood Ratbag
member of St. Michael's and former member of security/A.C.
<getting down off my soap box>
In 20 years of doing faire both north and south there has ALWAYS been problems with items going missing. Yes it is a horrible shame that it happens. But for the love of everything you hold holy can we stop pointing fingers in random directions and making paranoid statements.
All of you have seen non-pass holding people in backstage areas at one point or another while you've worked faire so it's entirely possible that someone from outside of faire is responsible for these thefts. Honestly the faire is not a secure location. People come walking along the back line along the lake every weekend. There's been problems in the parking lots with people whom are definately not part of out family. So stop with the baseless accusations. By all means you should be more vigilant with your personal belongings. By all means should the actual theives be caught they should be hung up by their toes and be made to suffer while we await law enforcement to take them into custody.
Most of all keep an eye out for yoursleves and your friends things and do everything reasonable to keep things from walking away. But let us not jump to conclusions without any proof of whom these low down worthless excuses for human beings are. Enjoy the rest of the season wish I could be with you all for the last two weeks but other life obligations must come first for me.
Thank you.
Lance W.
aka Your Friendly Neighborhood Ratbag
member of St. Michael's and former member of security/A.C.
<getting down off my soap box>
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 9:48 AMNon-pass holders backstage is a big problem this year. We have seen many OBVIOUS patrons cutting through just after a group uses a passthru on the way to a show, for example.
I have actually challenged some, and they say they "did not know they were not allowed". (Apparently the reading of large signs was not taught in their schools.)
One exchange at the Ananda Trading/ Wayward Ware passthru this Saturday:
Male Patron to girlfriend: "No, no! THIS way!" *heads to passthru which I entered moments before*
Girlfriend: "The sign say 'PERFORMERS ONLY'. We can't go there!"
Male Patron: "Honey, just trust me. C'mon." *opens curtain, smirking knowingly*
Me: *waiting just behind curtain for patron to appear* "You can't go through here."
Male Patron: "What do you mean I can't go through here?" *loses smirk, sustitutes scowl*
Me: "You are not a performer. The sign says 'Performers Only.'"
Girlfriend: "See? I told you so. Let's go in here." *heads inside Tickle Thy Fantasy*
Male Patron: "Whatever. Fine." *stalks away towards Strapwell*
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:01 AMThe same schools no longer teach the reading of traffic lights, either. The pedestrians at our daughters' high school have no idea that they should no longer start out into the cross walk once the red hand begins to flash.
They ignore signs that say, "No pedestrian crossing."
Their parents ignore signs that say, "No left turn."
They all ignore red curbs.
Is it any wonder that the same generations of people can't read signs that say, "Performers Only"?
On the other hand, are all backstage areas so easily accessed? -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:09 AM"Common" backstage areas are. There's just a gate or curtain. This year they're a bit better disguised because of the bungee cords keeping them mostly closed, but so many participants use them as a matter of course that they're always "visible" because of people going through them. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:14 AMIf you can't sneak backstage at Disneyland, what makes one think it's okay to do it here? -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:19 AMThough this is good discourse I think the point is being missed here. My original post was not about literacy (though many obviously lack the skill) nor was it about whom or how easilly someone can access the backstage areas. The original point was that it is sickening that we should be jumping to conclusions as to the identities of the thieves at faire and perhaps doing about better job about policing oureselves and our own property so that these thefts can not happen. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:23 AMI think your point was well understood by all who read it, Lance.
I think you have just highly underestimated our members' ability to completely derail a topic and turn it into a new one =) -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:26 AMno just kinda hoping that the "post a new topic" button would be used for a new topic and that we might actually keep this topic on point. But such is life. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:42 AMSorry, Lance. I was just trying to support your assertion that there are other suspects than one of our own. I thought it was still on topic.
I didn't mean to start a derail, but hey, when people gotz something to say, they say it.
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 12:42 PMLance,
Over the years I have had many things stolen. From EVERY SITE WE HAVE BEEN.
I'm more likely to believe that there is SOMEONE within our community who is dishonest than to believe that someone nobody knows can easily pass through every area unstopped.
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:16 AMFar too easily accessed IMHO - the problem I have is that people seem to turn a blind eye to obviously non-performers who are in our backstage area.
I used to live in the ghetto, and had no problem what so ever asking people who I didnt recognize, who they were and what they were doing back there.
For example, on Sunday I went through the cut through in the food court over by Manny's, my plan was to get some water and chillax for a 'mo or two, I looked over and saw an elderly man in modern clothing, who was obviously having mobility issues. I walked over to him and asked him if he needed help, he replied that he was looking for the front gate, and had gotten confused. Now - there were plenty of people walking by who happened to see him and promptly ignore him, I took him back through the cut through and directed him to the front gate.
My point is, that even if he wasnt an elderly man who looked as though he was in pain, he was obviously someone who shouldnt have been where he was, and someone long before I ran into him should have questioned him being there.
We are far too complacent people. If you dont know someone, ask who they are and why they are there - I've never been a fan of letting family and friends into our backstage areas (although I must admit that I have in the past), I just dont think its acceptible, but I understand that some people have, do and will.
They dont let me backstage at Disneyland, so why should we let people backstage at our show? -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:40 AMMy husband and I have questioned people who obviously appear to be patrons in the open area behind food court. They've always hastily made their way back out into Faire.
Whoever is taking stuff could be a particpipant or patron, we just don't know and either way it's not pleasant to know that there are thieves of any stripe at Faire.
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 12:40 PMPart of the problem of non-passholders backstage is passholding people bringing them backstage, something that is NOT allowed. I've been lax about calling people out on this, but I see now that I may be wrong by being lenient.
PLEASE folks, don't bring non workers back stage.
PLEASE. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 1:02 PMAlso, if you are a passholder and you are in plain clothes and someone does stop you and ask for your pass... don't get pissy with them.... thank them for their concern. With my pregnancy and the weather and etc 1/2 the days I was out this year I wound up not dressing out (I work in the back of my booth so I'm not seen much by patrons). My face is recognized by lots of faire folks so I don't often get stopped but I'm not recognized by everyone and the one time I was stopped I showed them my pass and thanked the person for asking. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 1:11 PMAgreed. Anyone asking for a pass is doing it for our protection.
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Re: A note on thefts
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 12:13 AMI'm with you on this one Gab. I have been changing out early, late, off and on, more and more as pregnancy takes its toll on me this season. I do, however keep my pass (and my lunch cards and ID) on me at all times, and try not to use pass throughs as much when I don't look like a participant.
As for non-participants being allowed backstage... I know that my guild does not allow patron friends backstage at all, and friends from other guilds require someone from our guild to be with them backstage (with the exception of court, REP Staff, and 2 others who use our backstage as their own). I know that *most* of our cast can probably be trusted, but these little rules are a precautionary measure so when someone says "so and so was back here" we have the ability to say "and they were supervised".
Over-all... my guess is that the thefts are not all the same person. It could be a patron, participant, or both. In my optinion... both. And the "if you don't want it lost dont bring it" rule is probably the best way to ensure the safety of your things.
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Speaking of thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 1:25 PMI've heard from three different people in three different contexts reporting that their gasoline has been siphoned in the last two days. Gas is over 4 bucks a gallon in most places now. If your gas tank is easily accessible...it probably shouldn't be. I remember back in the old odd-even days of the Carter Administration gas shortage that people had to invest in locking gas caps. It's beginning to look like that time has come back again. Preventing one theft will pay for the gas cap. Consider it before it happens. -
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Re: Speaking of thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 8:07 PMOMG Dennis I remember that! My Uncle owned an Arco at the time and the drama it caused for not only the customers but the station as well!!! I was pretty young at the time but I can still remember the LONG lines of cars standing on the street patiently waiting their turn. For the most part there was no drama. Most of the time.
I'm going to purchase a locking gas cap.
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 1:35 PMI think it is just as erroneous to think that the culprits are isolated to non-faire participants as it is to participants. In other words...it could be anyone.
Don't blame the victims...common sense is a good thing, it is prudent to take precautions. But even if I stood in the middle of the participants lot with 50 dollar bills taped all over my body, it DOES NO GIVE ANYONE LICENSE TO STEAL. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 2:40 PM<But even if I stood in the middle of the participants lot with 50 dollar bills taped all over my body,>
UM... Can you do that anyway?
Please? -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 4:37 PMI would but... lord knows it would take a lot of money and tape!!
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 4:14 PMI want to share something as well. A BIG portion of "thefts" are actually simply things getting lost. They get dropped somewhere between site and the car, or between one place and the next etc. It happens. I'm sure some of the stuff is stolen but there is also a large percent that are simply misplaced.
Next time you are excited about a "faire find" think twice about it. You might be contributing to the rumor of "thieves" backstage. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 5:44 PMWhich is why I turned in the key I found dress rehearsal weekend to Event Services. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 7:28 PMThis is why we have things like Lost and Found. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 7:40 PMAnd hopefully good for a giggle ... this gentlemen appears in the back of Ale 1 and is peering around. I ask if I can help him as as he says his son works here ... it dawns on me that this is Freeway's dad ... our own J Paul Moore! Still going to keep asking! -
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 8:37 PMIf you can't afford to lose it, don't bring it out.
If you HAVE to bring it out, keep it on you. With a string.
I once had someone explain to me that a lot of people are of a culture that, while they wouldn't think of breaking into someone's house and stealing things, that not to take something when there's an opportunity is stupid. Yes, I was living in a different country at the time, but I have been seeing more and more of this mentality here. And the thefts have been occurring every year I've done faire, Some years are worse, some just seem worse, I think that since we're improving communication faire-wide, we're hearing about more thefts than we would normally through other channels. I'm not for one second going to assume that all faire participants are above temptation when it arises, nor am I going to assume all patrons to be virtuous either. I will say I've observed more reports of theft during the run as opposed to during workshops, but that doesn't rule any of us out.
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Re: A note on thefts
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 6:38 PMSigns, cut tents with missing merch, GPS out of cars, things from tents...
saying a BIG portion is not quite right...
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Re: A note on thefts
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:57 PMLinda: Good for you on challenging the patron without getting confrontational. Lance: You're right, no pointing fingers unless there's proof. Lee & Kimi: You're absolutely right that unless you can stand to lose it, don't bring it. And it could be something that was simply misplaced or dropped. I myself, turned in a really pretty, pearled sleeve to Jose just before morning meeting on Saturday that someone must've dropped in the parking lot. Common sense, people. 'Nuff said. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 11:22 AMKeep a closer eye on your stuff???just a thought? -
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Re: A note on thefts
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 8:15 PM<While I am all for the funny and flip off-the-cuff remarks *putting on my flame pants*,>
I am on stage for several hours at a time. while we have people going back and forth, we try as best as we can to keep "a closer eye on our stuff". So, no I can't. I hope that I can trust my fellow performers, I hope that patrons are stopped at the burlap "wall", and I hope people don't touch my stuff. I know people who don't have a backstage area (a true luxury, really) so they can't even keep an eye on their stuff ever. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Sat, May 10, 2008 - 7:17 AMBTW, holding a pass doesn't neccesarilly make you "family". There are LOTS of people who work faire who do not join the "community". Remember, every spring the Employment Development Department sends a truckload of folks to Hiring Day, and we get a whole bunch of people who ge hired to work a 4 hour shift, who are then free to wander about where they please. Backstage, with passes. It's not like booth owners (or guilds for that matter) run background checks on everyone they hire. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 9:22 AMI've actually stopped patrons who reached over the ropes and onto tables to pick up cups and random bits of things left on the tables. Kids are really bad for this, by the way - 10 - 17 year old range.
I started taking cups and such and moving them further back into the Inn and putting them on a cup board behind the bar when they have been left behind. I'd hate for people to lose things. This is what happens when you have all of these open guild yard spaces ... Even then I have lost things in closed guild yard spaces too....
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Re: A note on thefts
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 2:48 PMNor does having a Fairever (season) Pass, which counts for squat backstage. That's a problem that's reared it's head at the pass-thrus at Ives. -
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Re: A note on thefts
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 3:29 PMA fairever pass is simply a gate pass that lets you in as a patron, right?
That shouldn't give anyone rights to backstage areas. I would chase someone with a fairever pass out of the backstage area just like a patron. As far as I'm concerned if they don't have a participant gate pass they have no business being back stage anywhere at all. Truly if you aren't a member of a certain guild you shouldnt be in their backstage area even if you are a participant.
I try not to go into guild ghetto unless I HAVE to find someone (this has happened one time). I ask before I dive into the Ives area and I feel bad every time I have to do it and try to make a fast point A to point B exit.
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Re: A note on thefts
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 6:05 PMI totally agree. I try to stay out of places I don't belong, (guilds, backstages for shows, etc.); I only pass through guild ghetto to get to the exit when I'm halfway out of costume during faire hours, but even at that, I try to make it a quick walkthrough. We have a random lot of people who wander behind our alestand (Ale 2) from Event Services to people wanting to buy ice, and I'm always asking whether or not they belong there. With our staff being cut as much as it has been this year, we have far fewer people able to keep their eye on their stuff, so I've got a rolly-box with a lock on it to keep my stuff safe.
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