Hello tribe, as your moderator I feel compelled to point out that tribe has been experiencing a number of issues lately, and I am starting to feel a bit concerned about what is next for tribe.net and this group.
I'd encourage everyone to get on Facebook. The service, once you learn to navigate it and block or screen out the annoying stuff, holds powerful possibilities for our community to take on a new dimension.
I am going to weigh the options, but feel it might be a good idea to start "backing up" this group on Facebook and create some continuity just in case tribe does not regain it's former reliability. I would hate to lose touch, lose photos, and lose the connections we've been building here since 2003.
I'd encourage everyone to get on Facebook. The service, once you learn to navigate it and block or screen out the annoying stuff, holds powerful possibilities for our community to take on a new dimension.
I am going to weigh the options, but feel it might be a good idea to start "backing up" this group on Facebook and create some continuity just in case tribe does not regain it's former reliability. I would hate to lose touch, lose photos, and lose the connections we've been building here since 2003.
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Re: Tribe and this group
Thu, August 14, 2008 - 8:18 AMHey Liz,
Is Facebook any better / worse / different than Myspace? I'm on myspace but I kinda don't like it... -
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Re: Tribe and this group
Thu, August 14, 2008 - 6:57 PMI'm with you on Myspace. The only thing I do is e-mail friends but I can do that with my regular e-mail. What's the point to Myspace anyway?
As far as Tribe goes, I thought they said they were doing some major upgrades right about now. They might of had to restart the whole thing it that's the case. For the most part, they seem to be better at staying up than the were even at the beginning of the year. -
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Re: Tribe and this group
Thu, August 14, 2008 - 7:26 PMDunno, but from where I sit, I'm having a harder and harder time even just logging on long enough to check this group and my inbox. While the obvious outages have been less than earlier this year, the impossibly long page loads are more frequent. I do try every day, and it's bad.
I haven't been on MySpace much, but I've played on both platforms, I've used both platforms for corporate networking and marketing, and I think Facebook is the winner for our purposes with the fire tribe. If you have an opinion, please weigh in, and I don't believe there needs to be only one platform. There's just only one that I can commit to maintaining as hostess/moderator, and between the two I feel more confident endorsing Facebook as the long term feasible solution.
If someone wants to step up and create a group or whatever is possible on MySpace and Facebook that is universal in appeal for the fire circle to replicate what we have here, please proceed. Redundancy is GOOD. Any of these platforms should be able to generate an RSS feed of content, just like the RSS feed that this group generates.
For the record, I will continue to hold this space here on tribe for as long as it exists as a viable platform and I draw breath. But the best practice is to back ourselves up on another server somewhere aside from tribe, and yahoogroups/MysteryTribe.
While I can extract the RSS feed of this group, I cannot extract your contact information. If the whole thing falls apart, we don't have a way to reach one another without starting over, connection by connection, rebuilding the network. This is a clearly identifiable risk, for while there are not many "islands" of isolated fire devotees out there, the communication network would take time to reconstruct, time that may be important down the line.
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Unsu...
Re: Tribe and this group
Thu, August 14, 2008 - 7:32 PMI'm sorry, but this is the only interface that I will play on unless it dies AND something very much like it appears. I will not be moving my stuff to Facebook or Myspace should tribe depart the world. I don't feel a need to go over my reasons, and you can find plenty by looking just a little bit on tribe or elsewhere. Not really a big deal, anyway, as far as I see it, since I'm already on the Yahoo Mystery Tribe. -
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Re: Tribe and this group
Thu, August 14, 2008 - 9:01 PMDancing Tree,
No need to be sorry. Everything is up to you, and no one is forcing you to do anything.
While you may find it easy to locate all the fire circles happening around the world, other people find it extremely challenging to hear about circles. Some have even missed circles near them just for lack of a strong communication network. Not all of the fire circles have websites, or get announced on boards like this unless people like us take that initiative. Several fire circles have experienced financial stress, and emotional stress, around weaker than expected registration volume. Our intention is to support the abundance and financial health of our community events.
MysteryTribe is strong and has been built up over many years, however many of the event organizers have noticed that a lot of the juice of discussion has gone out of the fire circle Yahoogroups, and that the effectiveness of announcing an event on these lists (in terms of measurable response rates) is vastly diminished. This is no surprise, as professional marketers completely outside our niche community are saying the same thing. Communications experts are now saying that traditional email as we know it is dying -- a sensational statement, but in many ways it is true from where I sit as a communications professional in the world today.
Part of the decline of Yahoogroups, in addition to the overall decline of email as en effective communication channel, is because rather than sticking to just a few centralized groups, we proliferated into having 12+ different yahoogroups, one for each major event. Everyone cross posted on the lists, so on a typical day a "power user" of Yahoogroups might get 10 digest emails, all of them announcing the exact same (single) event. Over time, a percentage of users either turned off the lists from email mode or unsubscribed entirely. This type of segregated modality is also sliding into obsolescence, in my understanding, and convergence platforms like Facebook will win out in the long run.
Tribe.net itself has suffered from an uncontrolled proliferation of groups. The community mushroomed a million tribes, and you had competing tribes on the same topic. Then, as people dropped their accounts, you had what I call "empty shell" users. People who hadn't logged in for 2 years would still be listed as a group member. Discussion boards got very very quiet, but moderators had no means to understand who was really here, and who was long gone. We even had dead tribes that could not be killed, tribes with no postings for a year, or two years. There are many many dead tribes out there - hundreds or more. We also had, and have, no way to merge tribes that share interest groups. I love Sushi, Everything Sushi, Sexy Sushi etc were all dying for want of attentive membership. Had they been able to be merged, and the "dead" users cleaned out, the group could have thrived given a new, combined, real, membership. -
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Re: Tribe and this group
Thu, August 14, 2008 - 9:01 PMWe are by no means abandoning tribe.net, nor Yahoogroups. As your moderator here, I deeply encourage everyone to continue to support these channels, and tribe.net has always been my most beloved forum.
I AM stepping up in leadership as moderator of this Tribe, having shepherded it continuously since 2003, and an early tribe.net adopter, to say that I am not comfortable with having the ONLY way to reach this particular group be hosted on an unreliable server. While many of you belong to MysteryTribe or other Yahoogroups in the fire circle community, and many of you can reach some of the others directly, it would be tragic for us to lose the data that 5 years of history represents.
Membership into MysteryTribe has ALWAYS been invitation only, and those invitations were extended from a select group of all night fire events to initiates at dawn. This tribe, from the beginning, was open to all subscribers without qualification. I perceive a strong difference between these two membership models, and believe there is room for BOTH to be supported and valued.
Our forum of Facebook will be a similarly open membership group. -
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Re: Tribe and this group
Thu, August 14, 2008 - 9:24 PMIt is done.
The Sacred All Night Fire Circle group is now a Facebook group -- in addition to existing here on Tribe.net as you know it.
www.new.facebook.com/group.php
See if that works, or just Search for Sacred All Night Fire Circle on Facebook to find us.
The intention of the Facebook group holds consistent with this group. It is for all fire circle groups and their related communities with at least one all night fire per year, who hold a sacred or "set apart" intention. To participate in Sacred All Night Fire Circle, both here and on Facebook, circles should be multi-faith -- open to polytheists, monotheists, atheists, etc.
If you are a pagan group that is not friendly to Christians, Jews, Muslims or other monotheists, or a specifically spiritual group not friendly to our secular community members, or a particular religious group not welcoming of pagans, then you are encouraged to form groups specifically for the kind of space you are creating. In a similar all-embracing and non-excluding vein, participating groups should be open to all genders to attend. If you have a gender-only event we recommend you set up a women's or men's group of your own, so that these Sacred All Night Fire Circle spaces can list events that any of us may attend.
Events, gatherings, and classes directly related to fire circle groups or events, and held by members of the larger fire circle community, are also welcome there. Excessive duplicate postings may be moderated to keep the group functional and usable for subscribers, to avoid the oversaturation and feeling of being 'advertised to' that has led to unsubscriptions in other lists. We'll play this by ear, and I'll welcome your feedback on how we're doing with it. I have always been a transparent moderator in your service and have rarely needed to step in and delete excessive re-postings.
Because both groups continue to be "non-denominational" groups, I request that members refrain from boycott behavior. Anyone is welcome to express why they personally may or may not wish to attend a given event; please sing your truth as you will. But refrain from pressuring others to attend or boycott events in our larger Sacred All Night Fire Circle community. This is not the forum for that activity and I do not support it -- take it outside if you must.
I encourage dialogue and discussion of our practices both here on tribe and on facebook. In your discussions, it is most productive to focus on ideas and principles rather than on personalities or characters. It is also best to avoid overgeneralizations. Understand that as far as I know, everyone today who is producing sacred all night fire circle events is "doing their best" to create the type of event they think will best serve the attendees as well as their own creative visions and inspirations. There are now many flavors of fire to enjoy. Let us respect those who "go out on a limb" to make an event happen, who take risks and make experiments, who try new things not knowing whether it will fly or fall.
I intend to support and continue moderation of both groups "in perpetua" for as long as the platforms may feasibly support them.
While I cannot promise to list your event or website in the groups, I will continue to do my best, and I welcome you to post your group on your own. After all, these forums are all about "user generated" content.
If you want your group officially listed in the descriptions please just request that of me directly or on the board.
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Unsu...
Re: Tribe and this group
Thu, August 14, 2008 - 9:53 PMWhew, so much said! And said well.
Yes, the slow downfall of a lot of email/group stuff is because IT IS so prolific. It's like cable or satellite TV, hundreds of choices and still only one or two worth watching (if even). I think that as a society in America, we have been going through a major globalization pattern which has burned out many. We may, perhaps, now be headed towards a new localized movement with less being thrown at us. Variety and choice are good but can be too much. And there IS redundancy. A lot of it. Which is one of the reasons that I won't join another site. I am often overwhelmed as it is just keeping up with the stuff on Tribe. And I have a hard enough time on Mystery Tribe figuring out where an event is being held. People post stuff and forget that even though they and their friends live in Wyoming (or wherever) that the rest of us live far away and probably won't be traveling to their workshop this weekend from Maryland. And by the time I read everything that is there, and then read my email, and then Tribe, etc.., I've used up my allotted time for such or am too tired to post something myself.
As far as attendance and finances goes, this may be a case of these events proliferating faster than they have the attendees to support them. And they are competing for peoples vacation time and moneys with other events that are similar if less intentional and more party like. Which are also proliferating. Burning Man alone has become wildly popular in the last few years and has spawned numerous localized mini-versions of itself.
I apologize now as I am starting to ramble.
I am glad that you are taking steps to keep up a presence that is accessible to all as far as Sacred Intentional Fire Circles goes. And while I won't probably join FB or MS, I am glad that our presence is there. Thank-you for what you have done, what you are doing and what you will do.
blessingsharmonyjoyjoyjoy -
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Re: Tribe and this group
Fri, August 15, 2008 - 4:41 AMYeah, redundancy (of postings) is, well, redundant... But the redundancy of servers is a clever idea..!
Thanks Liz, for caring to actually DO something! Me, I've stopped looking at Mystery Tribe a while ago... Too much flaming and redundancy.
One other note, the Bohemian Firecircle in Czech Republic was called off this year, due to anemic community co-creative input... It seems that nobody really took us seriously when we said we all have to rise to the ocassion, or else there wouldn't be any. But we just may have another one next year, somewhere...maybe in our first location or somewhere else. We shall see. -
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Re: Tribe and this group
Sun, August 17, 2008 - 1:00 PMHey Liz,
Believe it or not, I'm hiding out on tribe with all of my "living on the Lunatic Fringe" lifestyle choices hanging out. I don't feel comfortable coming out of the flaming broom closet on places like Facebook and Myspace where my clients, and the "powers" that oversee my various security clearances can easily find me. Color me paranoid - but I work for the media/press, so I have done a fairly good job of hiding my tribe profile from the world at large.
BTW, I use MySpace for business and Facebook to reconnect with everyone I have lost track of from high school etc...
love, B -
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Re: Tribe and this group
Tue, August 19, 2008 - 3:15 PMB, I hate to sound contrary, but no. Honestly my friend . . . you're not doing a fairly good job of hiding your tribe profile from the world at large.
You link to your main professional website from your tribe card page. It only takes a second online to see that link. From there we can see all the tribes you contribute to except the private ones, if any.
I can also see your professional website linked on sites like Witchvox and Queer Arts, and you use your real name to contribute to New Witch and other pagan media. If I was investigating your clearance and cared about such things, I would be able to draw the queer/pagan conclusion in a few seconds simply by googling your email address, googling your web address, and googling your name.
Luckily, alternative religion and orientation are not an issue for standard security clearances.
To all of you in this tribe: this is not private. The privacy tribe affords you is only effective to the degree you actually have a complete alias that in no way connects to your real life and vice versa.
If your privacy is critical to your success and career and all that, it's probably time to google yourself. Google your name, google your address, google your email addresses, and google your web domain. If you have a website, check Alexa to see who is linking to you. Monitoring your online 'trail' needs to be an active practice.
Now . . . Facebook tends to be even less private, but again your choice in online forums is up to you. You can set up a facebook account under an alias, no problem. Kat set hers up as her business ID, Mermade Arts. It's the links, and the shared identifying information, that matter.
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Re: Tribe and this group
Mon, August 18, 2008 - 10:24 PMIf you move to Facebook or MySpace, it'll be without me. I can't stand either. -
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Re: Tribe and this group
Tue, August 19, 2008 - 1:03 PMJust to clarify:
I AM NOT MOVING THE GROUP!
:)
I am creating an analog group on Facebook. If you participate on Facebook, then please find us there. If you don't, that's fine too. The tribe will continue to be maintained as long as tribe stays alive.
As I wrote above at length, tribe is my favorite forum and we have no intention of abandoning this tribe or moving it.
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