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Fresh or cooked?

topic posted Fri, February 29, 2008 - 4:44 AM by  Lenard
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What is the difference in consuming fresh cactus (peruvianus) as opposed to boiling it?

Thanks!
posted by:
Lenard
South Africa
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  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Fresh or cooked?

    Fri, February 29, 2008 - 4:48 AM
    I doubt you'd be able to consume fresh cactus,
    it's revolting.

    Usually the monkeys dry their skin
    then pulverize it, then consume that powder with a bit of water.

    But if you're san pedro isn't very potent, and requires a couple feet worth of skin,
    cooking it down into a tea or resin balls is a good way to get it down.
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      Re: Fresh or cooked?

      Sun, March 2, 2008 - 1:20 AM
      traditionally sanpedro has allways been consumed in a tea thats been cooked for 7 hours... if you can find a better way then the way people havebeen doing it for thousands of years more power too yah... resin seems like one of those ways.... but you would think they would have thought of that... same with powdered skin ect..
      • Re: Fresh or cooked?

        Sun, March 2, 2008 - 2:06 AM
        fresh cactus tastes like shit to eat really plus you will have alot of cactus in yoru stomach that will make you feel ill and give your body alot ot process cooking takes all the goodness into the water the spirit crosses over and then it is reduced into a strong liquid that is prepared with love then you can invite the cactus into you without having to eat lumps of fresh cactus, if you got strong cactus some people ave had good effects from dried skin mixed in water. resin is good but nothing beats tea if you ask me tea will come on quick and fast whereas resin will take a littel onger as it has to disolve to release the spirit.

        make a tea enjoy it get to know how the cactus likes to be cooked prepare for what is to come
        cooking plants are a great way to get to know them on many levels
        • Re: Fresh or cooked?

          Mon, March 3, 2008 - 6:10 PM
          Do you need to peel off the skin or can that be left on? It has always taken me hours to try and get it off
          • Re: Fresh or cooked?

            Mon, March 3, 2008 - 6:23 PM
            keep skin on dont worry about that remove the spines though
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              Re: Fresh or cooked?

              Mon, March 3, 2008 - 7:10 PM
              the xylem is the outer clear coat that surrounds the skin.
              this needs to be removed if you are drying the skin.

              if you are boiling the cactus
              the xylem will usually float to the top and you can remove it like that.

              Is that how the xylem was traditionally removed?

              Ingesting the xylem sucks. I've heard it's very hard to digest.
              • Re: Fresh or cooked?

                Tue, March 4, 2008 - 1:58 AM
                Thank you for the replies psy-community! What I've done is blended the cactus, after peeling, discarding the core. The liquid separates after a day or two in the fridge - nice clearish liquid on-top, goopy sludge below. I'm gonna give the fresh clear liquid a bash soon, when I have some time off at the end of the month & I'll report back. This will be the 1st time with this method. I've tried the powder & boiled liquid before.

                Someone I spoke to says the difference is - fresh = speedier , boiled = mellower

                .. I don't have a problem with the bitterness ..

                Peace
                • Re: Fresh or cooked?

                  Tue, March 4, 2008 - 2:09 AM
                  ohh good luck with that one. i feel sick just thinking about it.

                  i dont beleive that statement about being speedy and mellow
                  cactus can do both those things no matter which way you take it.
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                    Re: Fresh or cooked?

                    Wed, March 5, 2008 - 2:01 AM
                    I have always consumed dried or powdered. I like the taste of this. I tried a small peice of fresh once and I tasted pretty good too (at least in that amount). I think that my sense of taste is a bit abnormal/weak compared to the average person. Now that I am growing my own, I thought that fresh would be the way to go. Seems like it would maintain more of its power/spirit that way? If you would describe the minor alkaloids as "spirit", I thought that they would definetely be lost with boiling? Are you guys sure that the adversive physical effects are from the cactus (excluding core and skin) tissue or merely related to the taste? Was it just nausea? With the dried material that I have used, I found that I needed considerably less than the recomended dose. I am working with T. peruvianus. Would it still be just too much fiber or something like that?
                    If I was to make a tea, I should get it boiling and then reduce the temperature to what? (Is excessive heat bad). With the technique of drying the tissue in the oven, what temperature should be used?
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                      Re: Fresh or cooked?

                      Wed, March 5, 2008 - 2:13 AM
                      It seems to me like if my stomach can handle powder or cactus chips, then fresh cactus would not "work" my stomach any harder than this (or maybe it would be a bit less "work"). All that sun or oven drying would do is evaporate the water. Pardon me if I am being ignorant/disrespectful. I still don't know the cactus that well.
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                    Re: Fresh or cooked?

                    Tue, April 15, 2008 - 10:18 PM
                    You may not have a problem with the bitterness. Your stomach however will hate you for eating it. Way too much fiber.

                    I have heard of somebody just taking a foot worth of a young bud. The entire length of it was actually a foot. Just crushing up that and cooking it. Spines and core and everything. To good results too
          • Re: Fresh or cooked?

            Sun, April 20, 2008 - 1:21 PM
            I vote for removing both the skin and spines if you are going to eat it (fresh, cooked or dried) instead of doing an extraction. in my personal experience, leaving the skin on is a sure bet for purging or at least feeling like you will; with the skin removed I seldom notice any nausea. Peel off the waxy part but be careful not to pull up any of the green flesh. Yes, it is time consuming (and it can be even more difficult if your SP is scarred or sun-burnt.) I don't bother with the core, either (talk about fiber!) Peel it, slice it, discard the core, toss it in the blender and behold, chunky elephant snot tea. A few moments discomfort to chug it down and off you go. ( And have some mints on hand to kill the bitter aftertaste.)
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              Re: Fresh or cooked?

              Tue, April 22, 2008 - 11:13 PM
              the skin has the highest amount of alkaliods in it... you want the skin...
              • Re: Fresh or cooked?

                Thu, July 3, 2008 - 11:54 AM
                We're talking about the same thing here - the tough, waxy part? If so, I have to disagree with you. I can't argue about alkaloid content - I have no idea about what parts of the plant have the most. The waxy part may indeed hold a lot of alkaloids. The question is: are these good (magic) or bad (neutral or adverse affect)? Additionally, this content probably varies from plant strain to plant strain, growing conditions, etc.

                My opinion is based on some decidedly un-scientific tests we did after a particularly bountiful harvest. Four seven inch sections were cut from the same. The spines were removed from all sections. Two sections were peeled, cut up and the waxy skin set aside. Two sections were just cut up. Two people did the taste tests: unpeeled, peeled, and just the skins. Eating the unpeeled gave both people typical SP magic results with feelings of nausea. The peeled section did the same thing but without the nausea. Eating the waxy skins (tastes even worse than the SP flesh) had no magic effect and made one person feel nauseous and gave the other person a stomach-ache. (Perhaps the magic would have been felt in the skins if there had been a larger dosage.)

                Maybe we just have weak stomachs or maybe it was some sort of placebo effect, but for my money, taking the time to remove skin when eating, juicing or making tea from fresh cactus is worth the effort. (If your SP is all sun0burned or scarred, it WILL be a bitch to peel - these are the ones to set aside for extractions.)
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    Re: Fresh or cooked?

    Tue, April 15, 2008 - 11:17 AM
    I know this is an older post, but being new here with several methods of using this teacher, I wanted to chime in.

    1. Cooking cactus into a tea tastes no worse than eating it fresh. Cooking it seems to make the alkaloids work better fo me anyway.

    2. There are quite a few exagerations on the Internet about heat destroying the alkaloids. I have always used a low boil to extract the alkaloids into a tea. At first, I used a high boil and no loss was noticed. There has been no potency lost from heat. I believe this is a myth. While the internet is good for info, it is a double edged sword for accuracy and experience is by far superior to much of the mis information that is so common on this electronic sideshow! (hey, I remember when there was no internet and things were just fine, but no offense).

    3. If you have a real problem with the taste you can use the tar method. Blend the material, low simmer the tea, strain it and let the tea evaporate into a glass baking pan greased up with PAM or another no stick oil. I live in a hot desert and this will evaporate in three days into a gummy tar that can be peeled up like a fruit tar wrap. I try to leave it out of sirect syn and cover the top with window screen so it won't get bugs in it.

    I am an individual who always gets nausea with San Pedro, no matter how ingested. The tar method will not stop this, but will make it easy to get down. The nausea is part of the purge that is so imporatnt to the experience.

    Anyway, I really like the personal side to this web page and it looks as though many here have actually talked to the spirit of San Pedro. Good job!
    • Re: Fresh or cooked?

      Tue, April 15, 2008 - 2:04 PM
      welcome here

      mescaline will never be destroyed when boiled in water as water can only reach 100 degrees C mescaline is stable to heat above this range something like 150 or 170 or something like that cant recall of the top of my head
      • Re: Fresh or cooked?

        Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:15 AM
        Finally had the opportunity to test the fresh or cooked idea properly. I tried 100ml clearish liquid ( once it seperates fron the pulp ) of P.Torch. Seemed power-wise like a quarter Alice-D blotter. This was a very mild therapeutic dose. Yes, a little nausea, but Mary-J counteracts that. Had the privelage of doing the ceremony in a MOST beautiful nature spot by the Sea & the beauty was really magnified. I felt extremely good & re-energised. Colours were slightly enhanced too. No hallucinations on this small dose. Good as a booster dose. Had good dreams that night & ate well after the 'trip'. It takes a while for me to re-integrate into society after - fells like I have to make a real effort to relax ( Western society & all it's noise etc.) Still very sensitive for a while after. All good in the end & best psychotherapy ever. Like there's my higher self or the plant spirit there, very friendly, to make sure I receive the most out of it. The Plant counsels one & helps one to live better & be a better person. Back to Nature, I say!

        Bless
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          Re: Fresh or cooked?

          Thu, May 8, 2008 - 11:02 AM
          i do not believe it is necessary to remove the clear skin for drying i never have, its horrble for the fingernails and the patience! i also believe that drinking a strong tea dose = fot and a half down to a half cup concentration = strongest effect.
  • Re: Fresh or cooked?

    Sat, May 31, 2008 - 3:40 PM
    Firstly, ask the plant and listen carefully. I am not kidding.
    Depending on the variety of trichocereus, there are different lineages and traditions. I have been working with the brigensii, which is Bolivian and extremely potent, so very little cacti matter is needed. I peel the epidermus, clear wax protectant layer off, remove the spines and most of the white fluff interior, using the green layer where all the medicine is, and blend it in a blender with fresh lemon juice to activate the alkaloids. I love bitter, like most love sweet. It is not at all nauseating to me. I have never purged or felt sick and done quite a bit of deep work with this plant. Dried powder and tea are wonderful as well. There doesn't seem to be a major difference and they are all acceptable and potent methods. It just depends on you and the plant and the traditions you are tapping into.
    • Re: Fresh or cooked?

      Sat, May 31, 2008 - 3:45 PM
      thank you for your input Dahmay
      wise words there
      • Re: Fresh or cooked?

        Thu, July 17, 2008 - 7:43 AM
        I've had the freshly blended juice ( with honey to preserve ) in the fridge for many a months now and it's turning into a Sacred Cactus alcohol or something!
        OneLove~
        • Re: Fresh or cooked?

          Sat, July 19, 2008 - 2:47 PM
          It's a pretty foul taste, yes. I once extracted some, and it was a little better, with less biomass. Fermentation, keeping in the fridge, is a tad risky, perhaps. :)

          Lord Buddha

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