I thought surely I'd have something interesting to share. But put on the spot like that I wonder now if anything that entertains my mind is at all intelligent. Well here goes.
Today at work I found myself pondering as I was folding and laying out these cute new baby clothes in all the signs of the zodiac, how much the qualities of a particular sun sign could be projected on a child who wore his or her zodiac sign for all the adults around to comment on. The baby clothes had little cute descriptions of the attributes of each sign, and they were pretty accurate from my understanding of the signs. I imagined as I worked the little children who would wear this little outfit, and so as they grew older everyone close to the family would remember what his or her sign was, and treat the kid with those expectations.
Far from scientific, I know. But it made me curious. Does a particular astrological personality emerge all on it's own? Or is it guided and helped by the expectations of those around us? Do we all fit our astrological sun signs more or less? What do you all think?
Today at work I found myself pondering as I was folding and laying out these cute new baby clothes in all the signs of the zodiac, how much the qualities of a particular sun sign could be projected on a child who wore his or her zodiac sign for all the adults around to comment on. The baby clothes had little cute descriptions of the attributes of each sign, and they were pretty accurate from my understanding of the signs. I imagined as I worked the little children who would wear this little outfit, and so as they grew older everyone close to the family would remember what his or her sign was, and treat the kid with those expectations.
Far from scientific, I know. But it made me curious. Does a particular astrological personality emerge all on it's own? Or is it guided and helped by the expectations of those around us? Do we all fit our astrological sun signs more or less? What do you all think?
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 2:44 AMOooooooh, heaps cool question!!!
I'm a libran like you, and definitely think sooo much of my personality fits the typical attributes ... and from too early an age to know what being a libra really was.
im a cuspy though 23rd sept, 77 ... libran fire snake ... but had an incredibly traumatic birth, born early b/c mum was in a car crash a week before i was meant to be born, so came on early. i was transverse and breech, and forceps were used, damaging the limbic areas of my brain, which has definitely influenced my emotional stuff, and has a large role, along with genetics and external surrounding, in being diagnosed with bipolar ... so im WAY more emotional that most librans ...
yeah, it's a really interesting qu C ... I'd love t read other peoples thoughts too.
And what do you do for a job that allows you to arrange baby zodiac clothes??? THAT IS SOOOOOO COOOOL!
Libran love fest :)
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 4:39 AMThe use of 'accuracy and zodiac signs' in the same sentence is a major blow to the head for me. -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 4:44 AMI'm with her. :)
In Randi we trust.
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 4:48 AMIs astrology and horoscope evil? Will I be damned to spend eternity in hell if I read my daily horoscope?
Not really value for money, to be cursed for so trivial an offence... mmm. Let me throw in some lust, greed and sloth :) -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 5:48 AMi don't take it as gospel, nor do i take science, religion, randi (wtf is that???) as THE TRUTH.
how i see astrology is as an ancient form of humanity's way of attempting to understand the frightening world around them ... a form of mythology, of ancient science, and religion/spirituality.
Hume's 'Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion," and "The Origins of Natural Religion" are extremely insightful on these very points.
Do you call Plato and Aristotle the first philosophers? the first scientists (aristotle's div.org latin namey thing esp!!)?
and seriously, are Shaz and Craig saying they don't know their signs??? Or that they never glance at the paper to just see?
Cmon ... honesty is the best policy here.
Only YOU can be your own moral, spiritual and intellectual compass ... but I'll take all the help I can get in deciding where MY truth, which is to follow in Juvenal and Rousseau's motto: "vitam impendere vero" ("To consecrate one's life to the truth").
Be it through tarot, astrology, philosophy, literature, films, art, and chatting to people, asking the very questions that we, as mere mortals upon this vast, unforgiving, oft malevolent world, face every day.
vitam impendere vero peeps,
lollie bee
over and out.
:)
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 6:03 AM<< and seriously, are Shaz and Craig saying they don't know their signs??? Or that they never glance at the paper to just see? >>
Know? Yes. It's hard not to be bombarded with it.
Care? No. I don't believe what the fortune cookies tell me either.
My faults lie not within my stars, but within myself, dear lady E. :)
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 6:11 AMoh, i aint no lady!
but if your faults lie within yourself, would you be willing to accept help from whatever quarter it came from to heal and rectify those faults that haunt and hurt you and perhaps those around you?
(not knowing your faults, except for your reluctance to call yourself fluffybunnyfeet, which i think is more shyness than a fault).
the world is our guide ... we just have to find our own ways to heal our pains, and take as many as we can of others away.
healing ... integration of self and soul, of heart and of life experiences, esp those we see and hear and feel and fear that make us grow old FAR quicker than we should ever have to ...
Has been on my mind a lot lately.
And im changing my name tonight for a lil while ...
;)
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 6:17 AMYou're a long way from growing old, oh she of many names. And oddly enough, so am I. :D
Conflicting weltbilder notwithstanding.
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 6:29 AM
like my name?
grrr, making a fluffybunnygrrrl wiki translate in her old age ... seriously, i feel so old ... i bet you dont believe in old and new souls, but i am OLD!
you should see all the lines on my hands ... workers hands yes, but clenched for far more than just 30 yrs on this world ....
i'll post a photo of them one of these days ... and they are seriously kids hands - so small. a *libran* trait, btw ;)
meh, conflicting WORLDVIEWS withstanding or not ... bunnies have to stick together.
should i post about bunny totems, or are they not sciencey enough either???
The Rabbit
There are two dozen species of Cottontails in the United States, all with similar characteristics. Rabbits are vegetarians eating the inner bark of saplings and shrubs as well as leaves and fruit. They provide a perfect illustration of Nature's balance. Their rapid rate of reproduction is countered by the fact that almost every predatory animal eats them. Cottontail rabbits are quite timid, never venturing too far from the safety of their warrens. Rabbit teaches us through its timidity, to be gentle with ourselves in all situations.
The rabbit is often associated with fear because of the nervous energy it expends. They move suddenly and unpredictably. They hop and leap through life asking those with this totem to pay attention to their personal movement. Growth is assured if one is moving in balance with what is in their life. If they are moving to fast or to slow an imbalance occurs and growth is stifled.
Rabbits are most visible during dawn and dusk. The sun rising and setting from horizon to horizon holds an air of mystique about it. It is a time when the invisible becomes visible and nature spirits are more pronounced. Because the rabbit and the fairy realms are active during the same time of day it has a strong connection with the magic and mystery of other worlds. To enter this world all that is required is a leap of faith.
Sensitive with keen observation skills, the rabbit has strong reflexes that help them dash to safety quickly protecting themselves from danger. They can be seen, disappear and reappear in the twinkling of an eye. Fast, agile and clever they hold the teachings of spontaneous decisive movement. Always knowing which direction to go and when. When rabbit appears it is enabling you to take advantage of opportunities that may only present themselves for brief moments.
Rabbits are guides into the shadow world, where all of our personal fears lie. When the rabbit appears it is time to examine those deep reflexive fears that hold you back from growing. Do you keep dashing for the safety of your old patterns every time something new or challenging presents itself? If so the rabbit asks you to face your fears with compassion for yourself. Accept that it is part of human nature to feel fear at times, but also believe that our fears need not paralyze our growth and movement.
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 6:40 AMThat's a mouthful. The name, I mean.
Bunnies are great! When I had my office in the basement of my house the baby bunnies would come to the window well and watch me work. We got to be great buddies. Which constitutes intelligence of a different sort. ;)
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Sat, February 16, 2008 - 6:43 AMi know ... i may delete my feet. -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 5:01 AMDelete your feet? Last time I heard that was the mermaid talking, after she'd walked a mile in her new appendages (and look where that got her). Now, it may be too late for you to stay in the seas, but if you haven't taken the plunge yet, I'd advise staying with your fins.
And rabbits? Their cuddlesome fluffyness and infant-like deep gaze are but evolved mimicky to fool us humans into believing we are blood-thirsty predators, and they are victims. And it's starting to pay off dividends - who but the Chinese, the French and the Italians still dare eat those uber-cute little darlings? But the reality is far darker... and they no longer even bother to worry about their cover being blown: even popular media now show them in their unadulterated light, and yet none cringe. When Buggs Bunny repeatedly murders Elmer Fudd, his razor-sharp teeth (transparently symbolically) emasculting him, even taunting him in the process ("what's up, doc?" indeed!), or the paragons of western faith and medieval virtue, in search of the holy grail, are decimated by killer rabbits, who takes up the good fight, and decides to put the fear of humanity in these vermin? But no, on they go, hoppity-hopping through children's books, until their secret agenda, world domination, is assured. -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 5:48 AM...
(shhhhhhhh ... that was a *secret* michael!!!)
sigh ... the cover's blown! -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 5:49 AM
and i realised after i changed my name back to eury how funny that post looked!!!!
hee hee,
[looks around for thrashing tail ...]
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 7:57 AMRabbit is my familiar too. Do you know the difference between a rabbit and a hare? -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 8:03 AMum, ok, so i know you guys dont really believe in that weird synchronicity, symbolism, moon goddess, energy shift, chakra, horoscope stuff ...
but can i just say that it is VERY WEIRD AND SIGNIFICANT THAT I AM BEING SURROUNDED BY MICHAELS RIGHT NOW....
erm ... loooong story ... short version ... a michael broke me. 2yrs ago.
today i sent him my final farewell note ...
wrote sth about love that i liked, blogged and posted it, met a 17 yr old michael on fri (micky mouse), who restored my faith in humanity ... fell to bottom of vortex, climbed back up ... and now ...
michaels everywhere!!!!! and makin bunny signs at me as tho they know i'm wearing my pink boston bunny barhop t-shirt bought onlion at cafepress ...
i am f r e a k i n g out a lil ...
the name michael is very weird and significant ....
argh! -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 8:17 AMThere are many names for coincidence and all are merely imputation. What does hare do differently than rabbit when imputed as prey? -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 8:27 AM...
erm,
<Rabbits usually live in burrows or tunnels in the ground, where they prefer to stay during daylight hours. They try to keep hidden. Hares on the other hand, always stay on the surface among plants and usually try to escape enemies by running.>
[nervously waiting for something to crash bang clang or break when .... or as the floorboards just creaked! this kind of sunchronicity is played out in my life while i am awake.]
i am a rabbit with a touch of hare ... i'm a swimmer, not a runner.
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 8:42 AM>but can i just say that it is VERY WEIRD AND SIGNIFICANT THAT I AM BEING SURROUNDED BY MICHAELS RIGHT NOW....
Maybe the universe is telling you something. -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 8:47 AMMichael is G_D's sword angel, eh. -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 9:05 AMyup!
and [look away rationalist non-believers] my tarot is fortuna, but i identify most closely with the high priestess and SWORDS!!! esp the 4 of swords, and the 4 ... i have "the southern cross" tattooed on my back ... allegedly for remembering australia, but because i have been defeated in battle and pinned to the ground by four swords in the back ...
and michael ... the michael of my past ... he was a 4 ...
i'm hoping it's a good thing ... the universe is always calling me when its batteries are nearly dead and the reception is shite ... what else does michael signify (other than it's a really common bloody name!)?
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 9:20 AMMatters of the intellect sometimes require the willingness to
"take a wild stab"
if you will -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 9:27 AMlol!
nice one geezer!
atttention!
en guarde!
except my swords are not the pissy lil fencing rapiers .. they're the fatter than a motherfucker celtish kind ... no jewels anymore ... and the handles are really heavy and hurty even through the callouses on your hands (kid hands here!) ... and they are tarnished, but treasured, loved, but feared ... a line between foe and friend, between death and life.
i feel like talking in an irish cross scottish brogue right now!
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 9:31 AMAnthroposophy and the occult
The french occultist, Eliphas Levi, the German philosopher Franz von Baader, and the Theosophist Louis Claude de St. Martin spoke of 1879 as the year in which Michael overcame the dragon. This is confirmed by the esoteric writer Rudolf Steiner in a lecture in Zurich on November 13, 1917, where he states: "in 1879, in November, a momentous event took place, a battle of the Powers of Darkness against the Powers of Light, ending in the image of Michael overcoming the Dragon"[6].
Anthroposophists consider Michael to be the administrator of cosmic intelligence, who 'dwells on the Sun'. Waldorf schools celebrate the Michaelmas Festival (the festival of 'strong will')(29th September).
Modern occultists associate Michael with the color Red, the direction South and the element Fire. However, the Kabbalistic work, the Bahir (Sefer Ha-Bahir, Hebrew, "Book of the Brightness"), states that Michael is in fact attributed to the element Water.
In other forms of occultism, Michael is said to be the spirit of the planet Mercury or the Sun. He is ruler over Sunday and Thursday. He is the alchemy of motivation, activation and achievement. He is said to be bringer of the gift of patience, and the angel of careers, courage, achievements, ambitions, motivation, and life tasks. Michael's candle colors are orange, white and gold. His color energies are orange, violet, white, crystal, gold, and brown.
wow, had i been born on my due date, twould have been the 29th sept ...
seriously doubting thomases ... you gotta admit certain synchronicities, though solely b/c you have attached meaning upon them yourself, OR, because there are crazy mystical divine (eeek! the D word) forces at work, are just bloody w e i r d !
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Re: Could be difficult to say in an irish cross scottish brogue right now!
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 10:21 AMI'm dooing sho, azh we type, each, innaur reshpecktive caun'tnents. Luke hau it affexsh m'dection an' typinshtyle, then. Redeculosh, an'twhey? We cud ga'ull dye, wiit, thow, cudn't whey? Whey cud. Yesh.
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Re: Not difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 10:28 AMSome people like to use that expression, truncated in the modern day to, "chicken or the egg", to indicate that there's some insoluble question of relationships and causality that renders discussion impossible after a point.
When I was 7 it occurred to me that the egg came first: problem solved.
It was the egg, the egg, folks: the egg that came first. -
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Re: Not difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 12:10 PMloki you are surfing on my minds waves ... i was gonna come here and talk abt chicken and egg ...
where did the egg come from?
the golden goose layed it.
where did the golden goose come from?
i don;t know ...
zeus? god? dog? HAL?
a bang?
who can say ..?
and more weirdness assoc'd with st mike ... flamey swords ... i posted my pic ... of my friend grisha with swords and fire WAY before the recurrence of names and symbols and songs and stuff had gotten anything more than just .. mm hmmm ... yup, gotcha universe.
but there's a point beyond which you just have to shake your head, try and smile at the crazy messages, decipher them as best you can, and seriously, avoid the bloody lightning.
my wings wouldve looked awesome last night in the skies ...
how do the rationalists explain the power of symbols, the power of myths, dreams, creation, of songs and sounds and images that come to us as if whispered into our ear by an angel or devil?
and no, it's not all about sex.
at least, i do not believe that ... -
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Re: Not difficult to say.
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 12:10 PMlaid..
laid...
pls learn to type eury.
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 2:36 AMyou know, chrisie, i didn't know astrology existed until my teenage years.
my parents, atheists on all front, spared us the information about matters of faith that were not a part of our surrounding. growing up in a secular society, astrology, when did come up, was looked upon as if it were a mere tall tale, like voodoo, like god.
there was a whiff of arrogance there; it was cosidered primitive, of entertainment value at the most.
even while already knowing about it, i still didn't care enough to know what sign i was untill i was maybe 14; it simply didn't occupy my mind. i don't know the signs of my family members and friends. it was not an issue.
i still don't know much about it.
so. wanna study me?
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 8:44 AMChristie and Eurynome have already been booted. -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 9:58 AMokay, that's my cue...so long, and thanks for all the fish
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 10:48 AM<,Christie and Eurynome have already been booted. >>
Right lesson learned.. Big Mother does not like Zodiac Yack !
I think I will stay until I get kicked out.. I wonder how long I will last.. can you be a bad speller and still be intelligent.. because if you can't.. well... bye bye blokey ..... *sniff*
Do I get to phone a friend if I get stuck ? Is it okay to phone Eury ? Or will that get me kicked out.... or am I really gone already and I just... don't.. know it.... Mmmmmmmm.. perhaps there IS no tribe.... and I will wake up in some goo pumping out electricity for our robot overlords..
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 11:27 AMIt's not a question of liking or not liking, but rather a question of intelligence. Belief in astrology demonstrates a lack of rational thought. I could go into a prolonged analysis of why astrology is a folk religion masquerading as a pseudoscience, but that would take more time than I'm willing to devote at the current moment.
Of course, we haven't properly defined intelligence, but I'll go out on a limb here and say that intelligence and reason are closely connected. Willing submission to fallacious beliefs in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence would appear to indicate a lack of intelligence, or at the very least, ignorance or emotionalism.
Some may reply with the following stock answer: "Hey, I know a lot of smart people who believe in astrology. They are lawyers, business people, leaders in their communities. How can you say they are not intelligent?"
In my opinion, belief in astrology is a clear indicator that the individual in question is not capable of critical thinking of a most important type: introspective analysis. To ask the question "What do I believe?" is easy. To ask "Why do I believe what I believe?" is not so easy. The answer might be unsettling.
So a believer in astrology may have some kind of intelligence, that of manipulating symbols or what have you, but clearly does not exhibit a depth of self-awareness. -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 2:43 PMAstrology is inherent bigotry. It labels people by accident of birth and attributes personality traits to them on that basis.
Imagine if horoscopes instead were based on racial or cultural identifies (for which, by the way, there is much more evidence of divergent clusters of behavior than in astrology.)
"Germans - your natural inclination to be tidy and thorough will work well for you today, but be careful with your tendency toward cultural isolation and sense of superiority! It could cost you a friend!"
"Jews - your frugality and good business sense have served you well in past months, but you may want to consider spending some of that money on some therapy sessions to help you deal with your family neurosis."
"African Americans - your laid back attitude may be costing you opportunities! Try to be on time to that next big meeting!"
And so on. Surely, any newspaper publishing such rot would meet with round condemnation, no? Yet we accept without offense the pretense that someone knows something important about our personalities on the basis of our date of birth?
Rude and offensive, I'd call that. -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 10:51 PM<<It's not a question of liking or not liking, but rather a question of intelligence. >>
Right.. So out on your limb, intelligence is a static definable thing. Good. This means that to every question there is an intelligent answer (or set of intelligent answers).. Good. Please supply an explanation that is acceptable to every intelligent person in the world to solve the set of questions generally considered by "metaphysical". I'll do it for you.. "I don't know".. If this satisfies every intelligence person - why do we have philosophers ? Oh.. maybe that's a lot of clap trap as well ... okay - so all philosophers are unintelligent.. let's toss that out.. and we certainly have to throw out psychiatry.. because that really s fuzzy one ! Oh and medicine.. there are quite a few unknowns there.. sack the doctors !
<<Belief in astrology demonstrates a lack of rational thought.>>
They said that about people who believed the world was round - hell we would fall off the side of a ball !
Disbelief in it shows a closed mind. I know it has been put to tests - with varying results - but every time someone who has only met me for a short time, for the first time, tells me accurately, my star sign, this 1 in 12 result makes me try to have an open mind..
You can be intelligent and have a closed mind. Many intelligent people do - but in doing so you exclude a set of potential data which might deepen your understanding - so your intelligence becomes a prisoner of your intellectual bigotry. . -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 11:33 PM>> Right.. So out on your limb, intelligence is a static definable thing. Good. This means that to every question there is an intelligent answer
I didn't say that. -
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 11:45 PM<<I didn't say that>>
No you didn't.. I think I put 2 & 2 together and came up with 5 :) Or DID I come up with 4 ?
What do you think ?
(and sorry - working.. zipping in and out and not paying much attention.. I think was moving towards rant mode..
mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
Somebody spank me ! )
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Re: Could be difficult to say.
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 2:42 PMBloke - Maybe you've internalized, taken on and developed the qualities you've read or been told are associated with your sign? I have plenty of friends who believe in astrology so I'm not particularly hardcore about imposing my own disbelief (my most superstitious friends believe the most deeply) *shrug* Interestingly enough - even though people think I'm a typical "whatever" when they know in advance or are told - often people who think they're really good at guessing what people are get it quite wrong. I personally believe if you switched someone's chart with another person's most people would see themselves in it none the less (and be pleasantly surprised or horrified about traits the didn't "know" they had...but subsequently start to "see" in themselves and manifest).
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