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Marry Him!: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
by Lori Gottlieb
www.theatlantic.com/doc/2008...gle-marry
This was posted in another tribe and I thought it would be relevant here. It is a very long article, but honestly if you don't have the time or inclination to read it all you get the gist in the first half. That's where she bandies around the feminist term.
to borrow the summary from a fellow triber:
"It's basically all about how women in their 30s should "settle" on whatever man they can find, so they can raise their offspring more easily. Basically, you don't have to love the guy, you'll barely see him anyway (because he'll be working too hard to support his family), so you're just using him to raise a child. The article is written by a bitter single mother. Of course, this woman assumes that all women are just longing to bear children, with lines such as: "Of course, we’d be loath to admit it in this day and age, but ask any soul-baring 40-year-old single heterosexual woman what she most longs for in life, and she probably won’t tell you it’s a better career or a smaller waistline or a bigger apartment. Most likely, she’ll say that what she really wants is a husband (and, by extension, a child)." "
Putting aside the writer's views on marriage and family (which I personally found appalling), I thought her view on feminism would be an interesting point of discussion.
My take: I felt that she was misusing feminism as a shield, alternately claiming it when it suited her, then condemning it when it didn't. I categorize her as a "tourist feminist". She seemed to have a misunderstanding of what feminism means and was quick to label those who were secure with their independence as liars. I'm curious what others thought.
by Lori Gottlieb
www.theatlantic.com/doc/2008...gle-marry
This was posted in another tribe and I thought it would be relevant here. It is a very long article, but honestly if you don't have the time or inclination to read it all you get the gist in the first half. That's where she bandies around the feminist term.
to borrow the summary from a fellow triber:
"It's basically all about how women in their 30s should "settle" on whatever man they can find, so they can raise their offspring more easily. Basically, you don't have to love the guy, you'll barely see him anyway (because he'll be working too hard to support his family), so you're just using him to raise a child. The article is written by a bitter single mother. Of course, this woman assumes that all women are just longing to bear children, with lines such as: "Of course, we’d be loath to admit it in this day and age, but ask any soul-baring 40-year-old single heterosexual woman what she most longs for in life, and she probably won’t tell you it’s a better career or a smaller waistline or a bigger apartment. Most likely, she’ll say that what she really wants is a husband (and, by extension, a child)." "
Putting aside the writer's views on marriage and family (which I personally found appalling), I thought her view on feminism would be an interesting point of discussion.
My take: I felt that she was misusing feminism as a shield, alternately claiming it when it suited her, then condemning it when it didn't. I categorize her as a "tourist feminist". She seemed to have a misunderstanding of what feminism means and was quick to label those who were secure with their independence as liars. I'm curious what others thought.
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Re: Marry Him!: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 2:57 AMThere are a few things that bother me about this approach:
Firstly the man will only marry if he believes she loves him, so she has to pretend to love him. So the marriage starts off with a lie.
Generally men are not as emotionally wise as women but some or other time the man is going to figure out that he has been duped - and that he is just being used. The realization that spending your life with a soulmate might not ever happen will cause immense amount of mistrust and anger.
This is not faking an orgasm, or a relationship - this is faking a whole life. As more and more men start realizing this fact, it can only impact badly on women's reputation in general. Men will start to question the reasons for an institute such as marriage, and if this is worthwhile or not. -
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Re: Marry Him!: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 4:56 PM"This is not faking an orgasm, or a relationship - this is faking a whole life."
I agree. It's pretty creepy and manipulative, not to mention sad to construct one's life like that. it's a very dangerous game, that can affect the integrity of male-female relationships on the whole.
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Re: Marry Him!: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:35 AM>Firstly the man will only marry if he believes she loves him, so she has to pretend to love him. So the marriage starts off with a lie.<
That was my first thought when I tried to read through that horrid article. That bit of garbage has two premises as far as I may discern:
1) Men are emotionally immature and generally deficient in terms of intellect; but
A. They make good servants who may cheaply be paid in sex; and
B. Women just can't live without drooling servants to impregnate them and fix their cars/plumbing/etc.
2) The entire world revolves around the white, American middle-class; so
A. There is only one definition of traditional marriage;
B. If a woman does not marry and have children, she'll be stripped, branded and cast off into the woods; and
C. If you are infertile for any reason, God will let you have a baby anyway, so long as you are righteous and noble enough to put up with the drunken sot for whom you settled.
According to my calender, the year is 2008, so I needn't tell any of you what's wrong with those premises. Instead, I'll say that it's much better to stick to your standards. If you decide to settle for anyone who falls short of your standards in any way, you'll probably wind up with someone who falls short of them in EVERY way. It's much better to stay single and childless, in my opinion, then settle for someone who beats you and/or your children, can't hold down a job to save his/her life (or that of the family) and on top of everything else, does not even share your interest in exobiology.
I'm sorry if my rant came out less than intelligible; it's hard to write gracefully when you're this disgusted. Honestly, when I read that article, I could feel my great grandma (avav hashalom) rolling a little in her grave. I shall forever hold the name Lori Gottlieb in contempt, right along with Camille Paglia and Pat Robertson.
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Re: Marry Him!: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 3:42 PMHaving been on the deceiving end of someone who pretended he cared for me when in fact he really didn't... It is not right, it is unfair and even cruel to the person being deceived.
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Re: Marry Him!: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 3:56 PMEh, exactly how is she a feminist in any way, shape or form? I'll admit I'm not going to read the article since I have no desire to promote the author by making it look like her article's popular so I'm just going by the summation. Obviously she lies about enjoying being independent herself so assumes everyone else does too. -
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Re: Marry Him!: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 4:54 PMFifi,
that was my thought as well. she claims at one point to be a feminist, but doesn't seem to actually exhibit that behavior. and perhaps because either she doesn't understand what it means, or she's just socially stunted, she bashes it. Her warped view of it, and of women who don't share her neuroses, is what I found strange. Like wow, women like this still exist. ;)
for example:
"To the outside world, of course, we still call ourselves feminists and insist—vehemently, even—that we’re independent and self-sufficient and don’t believe in any of that damsel-in-distress stuff..."
followed by:
"but in reality, we aren’t fish who can do without a bicycle, we’re women who want a traditional family."
"I’m guessing there are single 30-year-old women reading this right now who will be writing letters to the editor to say that the women I know aren’t widely representative, that I’ve been co-opted by the cult of the feminist backlash, and basically, that I have no idea what I’m talking about."
followed by:
"And all I can say is, if you say you’re not worried, either you’re in denial or you’re lying."
so:
1) she thinks that having a family and being a feminist are mutually exclusive, no wonder she's unhappy
2) she likes to tell the world how independent she is because she wants that point of pride, but it's essentially a lie, like some role she plays?
3) as you said: "Obviously she lies about enjoying being independent herself so assumes everyone else does too."
...very good observation. I think that explains a lot. -
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Re: Marry Him!: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
Fri, March 7, 2008 - 5:08 PMSo she's blaming other women for the fact that she's been too lame to actually follow her dream of having a traditional family? I'd say that it's probably a good thing she's been unable to marry and/or breed so far if this is what she'd be teaching her children! That and she's not smart and/or informed enough about her body to realize that the early 30s are peek times for hormonal babymaking pressure. I knew I didn't want to have kids and I still had dreams about them (only when I was actually asleep). Stupid hormones! ;-)
All girls and women should be educated about their bodies and what hormones can do. If for no other reason than to be aware that all women have a couple of days a month where we'll sleep with men we wouldn't dream of dating the rest of the month. Wish I'd known that earlier, would have saved me all kinds of psychological angst! ;-)
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Re: Marry Him!: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
Sun, March 9, 2008 - 5:52 AMSince this is "women's month" or weekend or some such, and we're all going to be subjected to various articles about women along the lines of "what is feminism and are we there yet?", "feminism-the big hoax", "why nobody wants to be a feminist" and the "ooooh-aren't-I-radical-by-advocating-reactionary-devolutionary-1950s-era-fantasies" and other annoying (and probably a couple of good) kinds of articles, I thought I'd post the UK Guardians lineup of articles. Apparently "women's" weekend is all about feminism for the designated period and then it's back to baking and beauty. Personally, I'd like to see more articles about radical bakers, subversive knitters and some of the other more fun ways that real women express their femaleness.
lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/women -
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Re: Marry Him!: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
Tue, March 11, 2008 - 10:33 AMyeah, I think you nailed it with your assessment. :)
"If for no other reason than to be aware that all women have a couple of days a month where we'll sleep with men we wouldn't dream of dating the rest of the month. Wish I'd known that earlier, would have saved me all kinds of psychological angst! ;-)"
...LOL! that does explain a lot. ;)
I agree with you about the part time women's month or part time feminism. usually here any kind of women's month translates to more Lifetime television and Oprah. or it's the cartoonish sexpot shoot 'em babe ala Lara Croft.
on the subject of subversive knitters: knittaplease.com/ -
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Re: Marry Him!: The case for settling for Mr. Good Enough
Tue, March 11, 2008 - 11:52 AMThanks for the link - I wonder if they're associated with the crew out of Seattle who, I could be wrong about this, were the first to start guerilla knitting? And yes, women's programming does tend to be, um, shall we say more prescriptive/indoctrinating than actually a reflection of most of the women I know (but then I do acknowledge I'm a bit of a freak so probably know the other "drawing outside of the lines" kinda gals).
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