Advertisement
So I have experienced this many times in my life, and I've experienced is a few recently. There are plenty of misunderstandings that have gone on between men and women, some are more scarred than others after such misunderstandings. One of the toughest places are from the guys who are so ready to point the 'man-hater' finger when I do not comply with their world view.
Today it was from a class-mate in a kayaking class. We were all supposed to be learning, and he offered to assist me out of my kayak, and I said as nicely as I could that I wanted to try on my own since I thought this was part of the learning process. He reacted as if I tried to reach out and scratch off his penis.
Now, you and I know that not all guys are like this, in fact I encounter them only once in a while anymore, but when I do, I actually want to try to find a way to bridge the gap, but am still at a loss at how to do this without completely conforming to their initial perspective/offer, which in some cases seems to not be forward thinking. I mean, if a man opens a door for me, I thank him, and go in, and I will also open a door for a man and smile nicely, but only about 30% of the time will the man actually go in, even if I offer a second time, it become an ego battle after that.
There is also a man in one of my tribes who is going through his own struggle and process, and has discovered a cosmology which I find to be a bit suspect, but has also made statements which do not paint feminism in a positive light. I know that he has likely been abused by women reacting strongly to what he has said, but I have a hard time just sitting idly by when feminists are made to be feminazis [my word] again.
How does one bridge the gap with the guys who recoil so much when a woman merely wants to be self-sufficient?
How does one stand ground about feminism not being about man-hating and yet fine a way through the walls to the man making that claim?
Today it was from a class-mate in a kayaking class. We were all supposed to be learning, and he offered to assist me out of my kayak, and I said as nicely as I could that I wanted to try on my own since I thought this was part of the learning process. He reacted as if I tried to reach out and scratch off his penis.
Now, you and I know that not all guys are like this, in fact I encounter them only once in a while anymore, but when I do, I actually want to try to find a way to bridge the gap, but am still at a loss at how to do this without completely conforming to their initial perspective/offer, which in some cases seems to not be forward thinking. I mean, if a man opens a door for me, I thank him, and go in, and I will also open a door for a man and smile nicely, but only about 30% of the time will the man actually go in, even if I offer a second time, it become an ego battle after that.
There is also a man in one of my tribes who is going through his own struggle and process, and has discovered a cosmology which I find to be a bit suspect, but has also made statements which do not paint feminism in a positive light. I know that he has likely been abused by women reacting strongly to what he has said, but I have a hard time just sitting idly by when feminists are made to be feminazis [my word] again.
How does one bridge the gap with the guys who recoil so much when a woman merely wants to be self-sufficient?
How does one stand ground about feminism not being about man-hating and yet fine a way through the walls to the man making that claim?
posted by:
|
SF Bay Area
|
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Bridging the Gaps
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 8:15 AMThat's a rather large problem, because it involves changing someone elses' point of view. You'd have to find a way to turn their reality just a bit, and that's dangerous to attempt even in the best of times.
I'm currently using the be-patient-and-polite-andeventually-society-will-change approach to guys who don't get that I don't hate them. It works on abused puppies, maybe it will work on them too. Eventually. -
-
Re: Bridging the Gaps
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 2:00 PMI think you've certainly gone above and beyone the call with regard to giving people a chance, Guess. I admire that in you.
-
-
Re: Bridging the Gaps
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 11:50 AMPaula - Seems that maybe there's some woman hating being projected onto you as man hating? Any man who's so threatened or insulted by a woman saying "thanks, I want to try it myself" that they react that strongly has some issues about how things "should" be. Sorry, I have nothing constructive to offer here vis a vis dealing with this kind of thing. I just let them be offended, it's not my job to mommy every male ego out there (particularly under the thread of anger and violence if I don't!).
If it's a friend, I discuss it (or at least try) but this rarely happens with my friends. They like and know me *shrug* I actually find that this can be quite a good way to weed out the kind of guys who have issues with assertive women so we can just both go our own ways. What I find harder to deal with, are the guys who think I'm independent to provide them with a "challenge" rather than for my own reasons and purposes. -
-
Re: Bridging the Gaps
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 1:59 PMHey Fifi, I understand what you mean, but I think I am trying to go outside my standard orbit and try to understand the way that we all can bridge the gaps with strangers. The idea that compassion is the prime directive. Now, if one tries too hard, I get that it will wind up being a potential emotional sink, but what type of approach might be most effective barring a rap session lasting hours?
This guy at the kayaking class. My guess is that he had some negative experience even though his intentions were good. There are plenty of people that abuse others with their 'cause' and I can see that it might be possible that this guy had come across one too many people like that. So how do we stop the pattern? After this guy becomes scarred, he will only react in extremes to others of the non-scarring type [like bunnies not related to BF Skinner] and perpetuate the reactionary lash-out/retreat tactics. So how do we get from reactionism to compassion to parity? -
-
Re: Bridging the Gaps
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 6:21 AMPaulaC - Well, the thing is that with strangers we have even less insight into their motivations than people we know. We can stop any dynamic dead in its tracks by just not participating, by not being reactionary ourselves. Vis a vis abuse dynamics (since that's what we're ultimately talking about here it seems to me), that can take more patience. We can't take responsibility for someone else's feelings or history, or control it or even heal it. What we can do, if we feel so inclined, is help create a space for them to heal themselves. This isn't always possible and, since we're in a feminist tribe, I think it's important to note that as women it's easy to allow oneself to forgo compassion for ourselves so as to provide it for others.
Though, you are talking about bridging gaps rather than healing holes so I'm wandering off track here. Ultimately there's not much more that one can do other than be consistently kind and honestly who we are. Sometimes people will find this confronting or will feel that their need or desire has been overridden by your's but...such is life for all of us. I don't know....well much other than I'm not being much help. If you're talking specifically about bridging the gap with straight men then, as the situation that prompted this post points out, many straight guys like to feel physically useful and as if they're offering protection. Or they're being "helpful" because they think you're hot or whatever so your kayaking guy may have heard your "no thanks i want to learn how to do it myself" as "no thanks, I'm not attracted to you".
Not sure how useful or even intelligent most of this post is....so please forgive any incoherence, I've got the flu and it's making me kind of scattered.
-
-
