Solid Exhibits Wave Properties

topic posted Tue, July 8, 2008 - 9:16 AM by  Melvin
Alright, maybe I can assume most folks on here know about light exhibiting both particle and wave properties. While that's some heady stuff on its own, I've come to accept it since I "learned" it many years ago.

I just found out about fullerines exhibiting wave properties. It is pretty amazing to me because a fullerine is not just a photon like light but an entire molecule. Once again, science is proving what Eastern religion and mystics have known to be true for thousands of years.

www.quantum.univie.ac.at/resea...x.html

Okay, so it's not about psy trance directly but I daresay it is related.
posted by:
Melvin
Austin
  • Re: Solid Exhibits Wave Properties

    Tue, July 8, 2008 - 7:35 PM
    "Once again, science is proving what Eastern religion and mystics have known to be true for thousands of years. "

    Um...what is science proving?
    • Re: Solid Exhibits Wave Properties

      Wed, July 9, 2008 - 5:48 AM
      Science is proving, or rather validating the notions of reality seen from a typically Eastern perspective. As far as my understanding goes, many Eastern religions view time and space as interchangeable and malleable. When something that is solid can suddenly cease to be solid and become rather a form of energy that propagates in another medium, it suggests to me that our very limited experience and perception of time and space being fixed and rigid is very much off base.
      • Re: Solid Exhibits Wave Properties

        Wed, July 9, 2008 - 6:50 AM
        I don't know anything about religion, but
        "something that is solid can suddenly cease to be solid and become rather a form of energy that propagates in another medium"
        This isn't want quantum physics is about at all. its really not quite as simple as something ceasing to be and becoming something else. Its more that before we observe a particle we think of it as some kind of probabilistic wave. We don't know where it is so it has a chance of being anywhere, right? Once we observe it, we know where it is with probability 1 so its not a probabilistic wave anymore, but a particle. This is , of course, still crazy and leads to awesome things, namely the whole study of quantum physics!
  • Re: Solid Exhibits Wave Properties

    Wed, July 9, 2008 - 2:03 PM
    It seems that we are debating on a semantic level here. While yes, the bucky ball does not truly cease to be, it can be argued that in the observer's reference frame a phrase such as "cease to be what it was" could be applied. I do agree with and understand your point. Oftentimes in quantum physics the expression of what is "observed" in an experiment is very limited by a language which lacks the tools to accurately describe quantum phenomena.

    I find the experiments with Bucky balls to be particularly interesting because it is not something so small as a sub atomic particle but a molecule one nanometer in diameter. Of course, it stands to reason that if everything is made up of "dualities" then why shouldn't any object be able to exhibit this phenomenon as a whole? To me, the real rub is that indeed this is happening and we simply haven't the tools or knowledge to prove it yet. And though I haven't seen the results, I've heard there have been been experiments proving that Bucky Balls also exhibit the "other" quantum duality of being able to be in two places at once. Again, I've used the best words to describe a phenomenon that is far outside my normal realm of perception.

    Getting back to religion, the Budhhist notion of Samsara comes to mind. In a sense, we are all suffering this sickness or delusion that the world we perceive is the true nature of reality, ie... solid objects being solid, time moving forward at a steady rate, the separation of consciousness from the outside world, etc...
    When one achieves enlightenment, Nirvana, they are able to perceive the world as it truly is, a unified whole. Perhaps it is like a web of vibrational energy in which time, space, and matter are one and the same, a "consciousness" in which we reside and not a consciousness which resides in us.

    So, maybe if an observer achieved enlightenment the exact instant Shrodinger opened his box, they would see the cat as alive and dead at the same time and be perfectly alright with the notion? LOLz

    I am enjoying this discussion and hope that some other SGOA peeps put in their two cents, two dollars, whatever.
    • Re: Solid Exhibits Wave Properties

      Mon, July 21, 2008 - 8:41 PM
      "While yes, the bucky ball does not truly cease to be, it can be argued that in the observer's reference frame a phrase such as "cease to be what it was" could be applied"

      I don't think so.

      "Oftentimes in quantum physics the expression of what is "observed" in an experiment is very limited by a language which lacks the tools to accurately describe quantum phenomena."

      The math describes the quantum phenomena pretty fucking well I'd say.

      You can speculate all you want about what is really means and all that shit, but quantum physics is a very well established science, in the sense of bra-ket vectors and Hamiltonians and Hermitian operators, and speculation is just not science.
  • Re: Solid Exhibits Wave Properties

    Sun, July 20, 2008 - 8:29 PM
    Also, consider that buckey-balls are spherical shaped, so the electrons traveling around the perimiter of such a large spherical molecule will display a sinusoidal frequency in the way they oscilate between traveling toward and away from the observer. This may shed some light on the nature of the photon.
    Is the photon in reality a sort of bubble that is only observable as quantum energy/particles traverse the perimiter in the direction of the observer? Is the frequency/color of a photon determined by the size of the bubble or by the elipse that said quanta traverses on the surface of the bubble? Or is this all bullshit imagined by a mad god in a universe of enlightend chaos perched atop the shell of a gargantuan turtle pissing in the wind and spinning on top of a singularity made from pure consiousness?
    • Re: Solid Exhibits Wave Properties

      Mon, July 21, 2008 - 8:29 PM
      "Also, consider that buckey-balls are spherical shaped, so the electrons traveling around the perimiter of such a large spherical molecule"

      The Bohr model (ie negatively charged electrons orbiting around a positively charged nucleus) is a first order approximation of the hydrogen atom and pretty much stops there. The notion atoms as small balls with smaller balls orbiting around them is, while nice and easy to picture, wrong.
      • Re: Solid Exhibits Wave Properties

        Thu, July 24, 2008 - 4:15 PM
        I realize all that, but when speaking of things on the sub-atomic level, one must consider primarily the probability model. When you take this into consideration, the probability of a good portion of the fullerines electrons in some form or fashion orbiting the entire molecule is high, thus giving you a frequency or combination of frequencies.
  • Re: Solid Exhibits Wave Properties

    Fri, July 25, 2008 - 12:46 AM
    Two people sit in a movie theater, watch a short scene, and offer the following two descriptions of what they saw:

    Patron 1) - "I saw a large man with a brown suit riding a green bicycle to the clock shop that he owns. He chained up his bicycle, unlocked the orange door, and went in quickly to start his work day."

    Patron 2) - "For about 3 minutes I watched photons reflected off a white screen after they had been sent from a large heated filament through a scrolling roll of plastic coated with emulsion to filter the photons."

    And, unknown to our movie watching duo, a third, very short patron, had sat behind them and offered the following description:

    "I stared at the back of a couple of blockheads for about 3 minutes and could barely make out some clouds at the very top of the screen."

    Perception, language, and personality work so beautifully together.

    Cheers.