Securing a wind generator

topic posted Fri, August 8, 2008 - 2:09 PM by  gribbly
First of all - this is not technically a shade question. So I apologize for that. It is, however, a wind-security question. And someone over at LA-burners recommended I ask you guys! So here goes... thanks in advance for any help you can offer =] Here's my post from the other forum:

---start ---

Hi all,

We are making a big push towards renewable energy at our camp this year, going for a combined wind/solar solution. However, we've hit a snag with our wind generator tower - specifically, the plans call for a 2x2' concrete-filled hole in the ground. (A) We didn't include that in our camp application, and (B) we don't want to dig a 2x2 hole in the playa and fill it with concrete anyway! =]

We are wind-generator newbies, and are well aware we are playing with dangerous toys. So it's a problem!

So, can anyone connect me with people who have experience with wind generators at Burning Man, so I can benefit from their experience? Is there a good tribe for this kind of question? I have already pinged the AEZ mailing list, but we're running out of time and so I'm going wide...
posted by:
gribbly
Los Angeles
  • Re: Securing a wind generator

    Fri, August 8, 2008 - 4:46 PM
    I haven't used a wind generator at BM but I have used small ones on board a boat and a very close friend/tribe mate has a large one on the farm.

    Normally the 2'x2'x2' block of concrete is to anchor the mast mount then the mast pivots on the mount using a winch or pulley set for mechanical advantage. I can imagine a system where you attach the mast mount to a piece of heavy plywood then drive rebar through the plywood to hold it down and attach lines off as high up the mount as possible down to rebar stakes to hold it firmly.

    The weight of the main mast will be tough for the system to withstand until it gets fairly high and its center of gravity closer to the center of the mount.

    Make VERY sure no one is beneath the mast while you raise it!

    Good Luck!

    Hugs,

    Rig Daddy
    • Re: Securing a wind generator

      Fri, August 8, 2008 - 8:56 PM
      Thanks for the reply.

      >The weight of the main mast will be tough for the system to withstand until it gets fairly high

      Do you mean that the plywood block will be under a lot of stress as the mast is raised? If so, I think we'll be OK here since the tower plans include a winching system such that the mast is divided into an "always vertical" lower section, with a geared kind of hinge arrangement that you raise by cranking it. So the base won't take any angular load.

      Big old block of plywood with rebar through it is a plausible idea, thanks. Let me ponder that one.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Securing a wind generator

        Sat, August 9, 2008 - 8:09 AM
        a couple other factors that you did not mention. is the height of mast you propose to use. and how you intend to guy wire it .

        a 2x2x2 block of concrete ie 8 cubic feet at approx. 150 pounds /ftc. 1200 pounds. soooooo , you might use some water barrels. ie. 50 gal at 8 pounds. so three would do it.

        more .02's
  • Re: Securing a wind generator

    Sun, August 10, 2008 - 3:23 PM
    As a former trailer sailor who moved up to a bigger boat because I was sick n tired of raising that mast......

    Rig a gin pole to the base of the mast. the tip of the gin pole is then secured to/near the top of the mast.
    Your winch point for raising the mast is now the end of the gin pole, attach ur raising cable/line to that, a simple come-along attached to an anchor (handy auto :) would raise it.
    Be sure to have at least 1 shroud on either side of the mast perpindicular to the mast when raising to keep it from swinging off center, also a hinged mast attachment to the plywood base would also help.
    • Re: Securing a wind generator

      Sun, August 10, 2008 - 3:32 PM
      Question, why the need for an ultra gnarly heavy weight base/anchor? Seems to me most of the force on the structure would be lateral from winds, i.e. the "freeboard" of the windvane structure atop the mast would bear the brunt of the wind force and it is at this point you would need to counteract the wind. As on a sailboat, fore and aft shrouds to the mast top, or in this case right below the windvane, along with at least an upper and lower shroud on either side (lowers could also be added to the fore and aft shrouds as well). Could you then secure the base simply by dropping the mast pipe over/next to some rebar/s?
      • Re: Securing a wind generator

        Sun, August 10, 2008 - 4:54 PM
        >Question, why the need for an ultra gnarly heavy weight base/anchor?

        I'm not sure. Maybe 2 cubic feet of concrete doesn't qualify as "ultra gnarly"? =] We're planning on a 20' mast, and I guess it's just to have a similar mass at the bottom of the pole (offsetting the weight of the generator itself).
  • Re: Securing a wind generator

    Tue, August 12, 2008 - 10:33 AM
    Gribbly,

    #1 Make sure it will furl!!!!!!
    #2 Make it 2x what you think

    Tip speed on a 7ft diam blade can reach limb-removing speeds easily.... consider having a perimeter and light it at night.

    www.fieldlines.com/

    Check this link for Tower related questions.

    - alex
  • Re: Securing a wind generator

    Wed, August 20, 2008 - 1:16 PM
    You are assuming that there will be wind this year... What's your backup plan?
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Securing a wind generator

      Wed, August 20, 2008 - 5:52 PM
      wind is over 30 mph right now. ... calling for calmer over the weekend.
      • Re: Securing a wind generator

        Fri, August 22, 2008 - 3:25 AM
        I would personally rather consider a solar panel rather than a wind generator. It seems like a lot less fuss for one thing. The chance for sun on the playa would be something approaching 100%, (although I have to admit that I have never been there). However, I would imagine that the wind would be a lot less predictable, being something like the 'feast or famine' of too much wind or too little.

        For one thing, to get the wind generator to work properly, it has to be fairly high off the ground, such as about 20 feet or more. That means bringing in a tower of sorts, as well as erecting this tower it and securing it with guy rope staked to the ground.

        You also have to be worried about what will happen if and when this tower fell. Who or what would the tower (and generator) hit if it suddenly came crashing to the ground? So not only would your tower have to be at least 20 feet tall, but you would have to be certain that there would be nothing and nobody around in a 20 foot radius from where the tower was.

        However, the thing with wind generators is that you can have TOO MUCH wind, just as you can have TOO LITTLE wind. At a certain wind speed, most wind generators are designed to stop rotating so they don't get damaged in the high winds.

        I remember seeing wind farms as I was crossing Minnesota on my way from Ontario, Canada to Sturgis, South Dakota. These wind generators were huge structures, as tall as towers. Only about ten percent of them were working at any given time. I asked the driver why this was, and she told me that they had all been set at different angles to catch the wind from different directions and at different speeds.

        Then again, you are probably not trying to power a refrigerator, television and clothes dryer with your wind generator either. I probably sound like a wet blanket with what I am saying now. I suppose the best solution to secure your wind generator would be to secure the pole you would have it mounted on to something very heavy like an RV. You can always use guy ropes and secure it with rebar to the playa floor as well.
        • Re: Securing a wind generator

          Fri, August 22, 2008 - 3:49 AM
          Sorry, I guess I should have read the whole thread more carefully first, as many of the issues I brought up have already been addressed.

          I don't know if it is too late for this, but I would strongly consider using something like a =vertical axis wind turbine (VAWT)= instead of a traditional horizontal axis wind turbine as your wind generator for the playa. For one thing, it doesn't need a tower. I would make it something like a Giromill, and I would DEFINITELY make sure the thing was well lit at night, with a perimeter around it.

          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giromill#Giromills

          However, I would also consider something like this to be 'kinetic art' as much as it was a functional wind generator.

          Have you considered hooking up a bicycle to a generator and generating electrical power that way? I did see a compact device that was specifically designed to do this.

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