While checking in on this tribe today, I re-read the intro I put here and this part of it seems to be standing in front of me waving its hands overhead:
“The psychological rule says that when an inner situation is not made conscious, it happens outside as fate. That is to say, when the individual remains undivided and does not become conscious of his inner opposite, the world must perforce act out the conflict and be torn into opposing halves.”
Maybe I'm just being my usual neurotic, overly-sensitive self, but nonetheless, I want to check in with my Shadow Warriors here and see if I can attain some clarity about something that happened today.
I've kept a studio in a salon/spa in my town for my private practice and wanted to touch base with the owner to deal with some schedule issues.
She somehow ended up ranting about how I needed to be around the salon more to let the staff get more familiar with me to refer clients. What's weird is that I *have* done that and found that it's not producing results -which I believe has more to do with the economy and the staff not feeling comfortable trying to "sell" me to their clients.
I asked her what else I could do since her suggestion didn't seem to be working, and I guess she somehow felt insulted that her advice wasn't all that she thought it was, 'cuz she got all personal and started telling me that I have all these issues and then hung up on me.
I called her back to finish the conversation, but she let the receptionist answer this time and I asked her to have the owner call me back. After a few minutes, she called and told me to clean out my studio and give her back the key.
Ooookaaayyy, so whatever, right? No use fighting it if she's got her mind all set like that, right? So I come down and start packing up; and I take a moment to ask her if she wanted me to leave some of the decorative items I'd put in there since they don't go with my house, and I have nothing better to do with them but let her keep them there for what they cost me.
She refused, but there's another therapist who uses the room that might want them so I called her and she said she wished she could but couldn't afford it, so I mentioned this to the owner and she started berating me and telling me that I wasn't "listening" and how I don't let "anyone" talk and how I have all these issues I need to work out (as I stood there, listening attentively for about 5 minutes of straight ranting).
When she finished, I asked her, "What did I just do now?" and, realizing that she was projecting her own delusions, but didn't want to face and admit it, she told me she'd call the police if I didn't leave.
(sigh)
Realizing there's nothing to do but walk away, I did so and wished her good luck.
So here I am, feeling like I'm dealing with an obvious nutter whose mind is muddled by menopause and personal issues that's she's projecting onto me, but I see that quote up above and want to explore the possibility that I somehow sourced this episode.
I doubt it's how I came across or dealt with her during the time we've worked together so I'm considering any unconscious frequency that might be behind this on my part that is trying to rise to the surface for some light.
“The psychological rule says that when an inner situation is not made conscious, it happens outside as fate. That is to say, when the individual remains undivided and does not become conscious of his inner opposite, the world must perforce act out the conflict and be torn into opposing halves.”
Maybe I'm just being my usual neurotic, overly-sensitive self, but nonetheless, I want to check in with my Shadow Warriors here and see if I can attain some clarity about something that happened today.
I've kept a studio in a salon/spa in my town for my private practice and wanted to touch base with the owner to deal with some schedule issues.
She somehow ended up ranting about how I needed to be around the salon more to let the staff get more familiar with me to refer clients. What's weird is that I *have* done that and found that it's not producing results -which I believe has more to do with the economy and the staff not feeling comfortable trying to "sell" me to their clients.
I asked her what else I could do since her suggestion didn't seem to be working, and I guess she somehow felt insulted that her advice wasn't all that she thought it was, 'cuz she got all personal and started telling me that I have all these issues and then hung up on me.
I called her back to finish the conversation, but she let the receptionist answer this time and I asked her to have the owner call me back. After a few minutes, she called and told me to clean out my studio and give her back the key.
Ooookaaayyy, so whatever, right? No use fighting it if she's got her mind all set like that, right? So I come down and start packing up; and I take a moment to ask her if she wanted me to leave some of the decorative items I'd put in there since they don't go with my house, and I have nothing better to do with them but let her keep them there for what they cost me.
She refused, but there's another therapist who uses the room that might want them so I called her and she said she wished she could but couldn't afford it, so I mentioned this to the owner and she started berating me and telling me that I wasn't "listening" and how I don't let "anyone" talk and how I have all these issues I need to work out (as I stood there, listening attentively for about 5 minutes of straight ranting).
When she finished, I asked her, "What did I just do now?" and, realizing that she was projecting her own delusions, but didn't want to face and admit it, she told me she'd call the police if I didn't leave.
(sigh)
Realizing there's nothing to do but walk away, I did so and wished her good luck.
So here I am, feeling like I'm dealing with an obvious nutter whose mind is muddled by menopause and personal issues that's she's projecting onto me, but I see that quote up above and want to explore the possibility that I somehow sourced this episode.
I doubt it's how I came across or dealt with her during the time we've worked together so I'm considering any unconscious frequency that might be behind this on my part that is trying to rise to the surface for some light.
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 8:52 AMi wish i had some words of wisdom for you, but i wanted to at least say that i relate to your question. sometimes i am so confused by "projection" and what's really mine. or is it all mine in a paradoxical sort of way? regardless, i look forward to some insights on your issue.
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 9:27 AMI doubt if it's what you want to hear, but I have a slightly different perspective. ;-)
You said, >>She somehow ended up ranting about how I needed to be around the salon more to let the staff get more familiar with me to refer clients. What's weird is that I *have* done that and found that it's not producing results -which I believe has more to do with the economy and the staff not feeling comfortable trying to "sell" me to their clients.
I asked her what else I could do since her suggestion didn't seem to be working, and I guess she somehow felt insulted that her advice wasn't all that she thought it was, 'cuz she got all personal and started telling me that I have all these issues and then hung up on me. <<
So you said she was "ranting" (which in itself doesn't sound very compassionate), and then it seems like you jumped right to, "what else I could do." Sure, you're telling us here the reasons you jumped to asking that, yet it sounds like you didn't give her those reasons while you were talking to her -- you stepped right over that, possibly cutting her off at the knees.
So... it shows up for me that using some Reflective Listening Skills would go a long way toward helping *others* feel they are being heard. You MAY be listening very closely, but if the other person doesn't FEEL heard, they feel invalidated.
Listening is a difficult skill to develop -- most people are doing everything BUT listening when they say they are listening. So I would encourage you to look there, to see whether you are *really* listening, or whether you are sending out signals that you are not respecting them, impatient with them, dismissing/discounting them, and all those other relationship-cancelling sorts of things. You might be surprised what you are meta-communicating -- and that may well be what is being responded to.
PS: I highly recommend the book "Crucial Conversations," or any of Rosenberg's books on the topic of Non-Violent Communication. It's one thing to call her "nutter" here -- what about saying something to her while it's happening? Something like, "This upset seems disproportionate to the situation, and I'm really puzzled. Could you share what's really going on with you? Because this doesn't feel right. Is it something I'm doing, or is something else here? What's that about?" In other words, there are ways to name the problem while you're in it. -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 3:20 PMVicky Jo said:
"So you said she was "ranting" (which in itself doesn't sound very compassionate),"
What's not compassionate about using the word "rant"? That's just a descriptive word. What do you think I *should* have used?
Anyway, am I *supposed* to be compassionate about someone slamming me over their own issues? If you think so, please tell me why, because I don't see the value in giving compassion where a "fuck-off" would seem more appropriate.
Vicky Jo said:
"and then it seems like you jumped right to, "what else I could do." Sure, you're telling us here the reasons you jumped to asking that, yet it sounds like you didn't give her those reasons while you were talking to her -- you stepped right over that, possibly cutting her off at the knees."
I don't know what you mean by "cutting her off at the knees", but I *did* tell her why I thought her suggestion wasn't working and THEN I asked her what else I could do.
Vicky Jo said:
"So... it shows up for me that using some Reflective Listening Skills would go a long way toward helping *others* feel they are being heard. You MAY be listening very closely, but if the other person doesn't FEEL heard, they feel invalidated."
I understand that, and I *did* use those skills with her as best I could. However, she didn't really give me much opportunity to use those skills when she was bullying me with her tone, her words, and her energy. She made it clear that she wasn't listening to me. What I got from her was that was only hearing herself and listening for the response that she wanted or expected.
When I told her that I did what she had suggested in the beginning (hanging around with staff who were normally busy working), and that I found it wasn't working and that I wanted to hear what else the owner thought could help, she acted like she didn't even hear that or simply invalidated what I had just said as she cut me off and contradicted me. It's like I said "yes, I did that" and she said "no you didn't".
What can you say to someone like that? I've dealt with lots of people in life who only care about making accusations and hanging onto their beliefs and stories. They don't *want* to hear anything different, and that's exactly what this woman was about.
Vicky Jo said:
"Listening is a difficult skill to develop -- most people are doing everything BUT listening when they say they are listening. So I would encourage you to look there, to see whether you are *really* listening, or whether you are sending out signals that you are not respecting them, impatient with them, dismissing/discounting them, and all those other relationship-cancelling sorts of things. You might be surprised what you are meta-communicating -- and that may well be what is being responded to."
I know exactly what you're talking about, and what's intersting is that I was doing using those skills while she was doing the very thing you're suggesting I might've been doing. I have found that when one person is stuck in that mode, it doesn't matter what skills the other person has. BOTH parties have to be willing to use these skills or it just doesn't work.
Vicky Jo said:
"It's one thing to call her "nutter" here -- what about saying something to her while it's happening? Something like, "This upset seems disproportionate to the situation, and I'm really puzzled. Could you share what's really going on with you? Because this doesn't feel right. Is it something I'm doing, or is something else here? What's that about?" In other words, there are ways to name the problem while you're in it."
Again, I did *exactly* that! Moreso because the day before I called to have her block me off for the rest of the day so I could take some work that was offered to me, and she sounded impatient and exasperated with me. I didn't bring it up right away and just sat with my impression to check with myself about whether I might just be "hearing" things, but it stuck with me so I called her back and shared my impression and asked her if I had done something wrong to which she replied with further impatience about all that was going wrong with her day.
So what I've gotten about her is that she has zero self-awareness and that it never occurs to her how she treats people or why she gets the reactions she does. She got all preachy with me about how I should be, how I should listen, when it was totally clear she needed to stop telling others what to do and just follow her own advice.
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 5:44 PMHi Marley,
I’ve read your original question a couple times as well as this thread as it developed and to me..... something is missing???? While it appears you’re being forthright.. I get the feeling that something is being withheld.. BUT... and what I find unusual is that I can’t put my finger on it... Maybe writing this post will help me hone me in on what is and is not going on...
I get the feeling that there is some ambivalence regarding your studio.. Ahhh.... as I wrote that I felt that you’re not really into what you’re doing... which is your own thing, your independence... and at the same time I feel that you have an issue with someone telling you what to do.. which is why you’re doing what you’re doing... to be in dependant and free.
I also felt her frustration in trying to help you in whatever ways she could and then to have you call in and ask her to cancel bookings... that triggered her into her issues...that she is putting herself out to help you...(self-sacrifice issues) so in denial and frustration.... she says...”Why am I trying”... and hence her rant...
So this situation is about what you think she’s doing... and is doing to you... which, when reversed (mirror image reflection)....is really about what you think you should be doing and are doing to yourself... all be it without the conscious awareness of what is really happening... because you’re already in denial of your real issues... which, when in denial, your mind reverses the mental imagery and makes it appear that it’s the other person that has a problem.
Although you have this nonchalant attitude, my question to you is... Do you have denied anger and rage that things are not working out as you had planned or hoped, and have you given up? Maybe her issues and your issues are not too far apart.
Shenreed
PS: Talking about reflection... I now feel and see that I too have some ambivalence regarding my my progress and my books... and that I have some anger and rage that things aren’t working out as I EXPECTED or hoped... Thanks for posting... as I now have some work to do on expectations and on lost hopes dreams and desires. -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Fri, June 20, 2008 - 11:25 PMThanks Shenreed,
I think I get what you're at there and I'll def let it brew a while to see what comes up. I appreciate how you found your own issues reflected in my situation. As you said, you may be projecting your own things here, but that doesn't necessarily mean I don't have the same issues you're dealing with. As the saying goes, "We Identify what we identify with".
I always make the effort -in such situations as this- to dwell in the mantra: I AM THAT.
There's a kernel of truth in your intuition about my "ambivalence" and anger. I saw that studio as my way towards greater self-employment since I get paid nearly thrice as much there as I do at my other 3 jobs. I liked the environment there better than my other 3 jobs too. The only thing I didn't like about it was that I could always feel tremendous pressure vibing out from the owner regarding her expectation for me to just hang out at the salon. I think it's a classic case of egocentricity blinding her to a greater reality due to her entire world being focused on her salon. She thought the *only* way I could build my practice was by getting referrals from the stylists working there after they've gotten to know me better over time. I made the effort for a while to meet all the staff and explain what I do and offer a half-off session to experience my work, but no one took the opportunity. It didn't seem appropriate for me to hang out and chat with staff and clients while services were being rendered.
Yes, I think in the owner's mind she believed she was helping me out. However, I never cancelled bookings. I simply took myself off the schedule for a particular day of the week so that I could take other work that had been presented to me so that I can make a living. As I did that though, I told her there were *THREE* other days I could make myself available instead of the one I needed to give to another job.
I promote myself in the best way possible: by working on 16-24 chiropractic patients every week, and much of that number is comprised of *new* patients. She knew that I was doing this, but she didn't seem to care. All she seemed to care about was her suggestion, and she wasn't interested in hearing that it wasn't effective.
As a side note, I confronted her about my feeling pressured by her, and she not only denied it but belittled me and treated me like an over-imaginative child; but then when we had our last discussion, she made it abundantly clear that she had been holding this expectation and frustration all along!!
So maybe it could be said that I wanted to get away from that negative energy of hers, but I was hoping it would just disperse or be directed elsewhere instead of at me.
I know that she is going through menopause, has a 19 yr old son, and is feeling like she can't hold a romantic relationship due to her work. I'm the ONLY male that has worked in her establishment and my intuition tells me that I somehow became associated, however unconsciously, with her issues with the men in her life. I don't know anything about what's going on with her son, but if he's like most 19 yr olds, she may be feeling him slipping away from her as he ventures out into his life on his own. If she's afraid of losing him, and she's obviously feeling trapped by her business and resenting the prison it's become for her heart regarding venturing into romance, then I can see how she may be looking at being alone in her waning years. She's lived much longer than I, and what does she have to show for it?
I know I'm making a story here, but it's what seems very plausible to me, and I can see how it may explain her behavior with me. She can't have what she really wants with the men who are closest to her, so there I am as the next closest male in her world and her position as my boss provides the illusion of power to make me do what she wants. She has the power to "send me away" before I have the chance to leave *her*. Get it? I've seen this "I'll get you before you can get me" dynamic with a lot of people.
I really thought we could just tolerate each other and stay out of each other's hair while I built my practice, but I feel her personal issues sabotaged that endeavor.
Getting back to my own issues Shenreed, I definitely have times where I'm not totally satisfied with my own accomplishments in life -but that's only when I'm looking at what I want vs. what I *have* accomplished which is actually quite a lot and something I can be proud of!!
So it really depends on how I want to feel about my accomplishments. I have so much more than so many people and much less than others. But I am supporting myself doing work I love and have many loving friends, lots of fun, and a long line of exciting prospects aligned in front of me just waiting for me to choose which I want to pursue.
I have books and screenplays I'm pecking at; inventions forming in my head and getting ready for patenting; prospects of becoming a DJ and having unimaginable fun with that; a niteclub for youth in a town that has nothing of the kind; going back to college to pursue a PhD in Psychology & Consciousness studies through CIIS, and, the list goes on.
Perhaps most important of all is that I feel free to be ME, and I have nothing tying me down and keeping me from pursuing any opportunity that turns me on! The owner of that salon is trapped body, mind and soul. For example, I got a pretty radical haircut that flipped her out and she nearly stammered with how hard it would make it for me to build my practice because she truly believed that everyone around us were as conventional as her. What ended up happening though is that I got more new clients, more *repeat* clients, and nothing but admiration for my free expression as I lived and spoke my philosophy to others, "If you're not having fun, what's the point of living?"
The only people I've really come to odds with in recent years are people who are subliminally threatened by my free spirit because they're conditioned to express only a fraction of their heart and spirit due to fear of rejection and humiliation. I overcame that fear long ago, and those who have been my greatest foes are the ones who have fired me. BUT that's *all* they could do, and it doesn't stop my stride. I simply skip along to the next opportunity and lose nothing while gaining more self-confidence in my Self and my intuition.
In a way I actually see these events as real blessings because of this affirmation of the Truth I feel in my heart and spirit :o)
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 4:50 AMthat's great inside Shenreed... nice to read some clarity...
I only add this:
The other person IS you!
Injoy
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Sat, June 21, 2008 - 5:31 PMHey there...
It feels over here like I've run afoul of some "defenses"... and my apologies for that.
I took what you wrote very literally, so I don't know all the other things that got said or done. The problem with email is that it's treacherous to "read between the lines," and if you take what's written literally, then that's not accurate either.
:-(
Regardless, I feel like I'm being sucked into a drama triangle, with the victim and persecutor roles clearly delineated, and a "casting call" for somebody to play the role of "rescuer.
So I think I'll just back away slowly, tender my apologies for whatever I may have mis-stated, misread, or misunderstood. And I'll recommend a book:
"Thank you for being such a pain -- spiritual guidance for dealing with difficult people." I can't find the author's name right now, but I'm sure a quick search on Amazon will turn it up.
Best of luck!
-Vicky Jo ;-) -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Sat, June 21, 2008 - 6:33 PMI'm not feeling defensive Vicky Jo, I'm just clarifying the items you brought up.
Maybe you're the one feeling defensive?
You're not being "sucked into" anything here. I simply wanted to get perspective on how things *could* have been triggered, as well as whether there was really anything I could've done to handle the situation better short of letting this person mistreat me.
I don't want to sabotage myself by committing to fault her if I was really responsible for how this came out.
However, I've shared my story with many others in (her and my) community, and the resounding majority share that they've had similar problems with her as well, so I'm left with the impression that it really was all her and that there was really no way to avoid this without degrading myself and accepting her abuse.
LIke I mentioned to Shenreed, I gratefully accept this incident because it's reinforced my trust in my intuition and ability to stand up for myself which is a huge deal because I spent most of my life letting people walk all over me while I remained "understanding" and "compassionate".
All the same, it's my custom to exercise my self-awareness so that I don't sabotage myself with denial. I've noticed certain patterns that I want to get a clearer view on because such patterns are conspicuous and thus have the potential to be auspicous.
Perhaps I could save the stories that relate to such incidences and simply ask why I could be attracting people into my life who end up engaging me in these kind of dramas. What purpose would that serve?
Speaking of which, I feel compelled to share an impression or intuition about what your latest response here Vicky Jo. What I see as a possibility is that you give inappropriate or incomplete advice or perspective that results in the kind of response that leaves you feeling unappreciated or unaccepted which can be emotionally addictive feelings that, if left in the Shadows, will find ways to stay "fed". How does that resonate with you?
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Fri, June 27, 2008 - 11:58 PMsimply put...
that was all her shit...
just that you inquire within and without about the potential of it being your stuff shows that you are "conscious of your inner opposite" not that i fully believe in that projection psychology...
the way i see it, those of us who walk in Balance with the Light and the Dark emit higher vibrational frequencies that radiate as Light onto the shadows of those in our Presences so that the shadows that are unconscious in others flail because the Light of our intentions shine brightly and they can no longer hide thus, the nutty woman, was functioning in a flailing anxiety around you because you are so bright...
you are LOVED and worthy...
Bless. -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Sat, June 28, 2008 - 10:52 AMthat whole:
"the other person IS you"
feels so fucking new agey to me!
blech!
what i have come to understand in my heightened (and genuine) evolution is that, in Spirit, we are All One, or, rather, we come from the same Sources, the same stardust...
HUMANLY, though, with personality quirks and varying mind games/patterns, attachments, triggers, Joys, insights, pains, achievements we are not One at all!!! we are absolutely separate (even though we still affect one another on profound levels with our vibrations), we are fragmented, and full on individuals as humans...
that woman had her own unconscious shadows that were triggered by the Presence of an individual who vibrates intense frequencies of Balance and Truth and awareness in marley...
he was simply Being...
SEPARATE from her for sure...
this whole thing about someone being agro on someone and that person getting attacked must own or take responsibility for the actions and choices of the person attacking is BULLSHIT!
absolute new age crap that perpetuates a "blame the victim" mentality = new age version of christianity...
Blessed Be the Truth. -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Sat, June 28, 2008 - 7:13 PM"in Spirit, we are All One,"
We are still 'in spirit'.. just a denser form.
"we are fragmented, and full on individuals as humans... "
yes, yet entirely reflective of the whole and of each other...
the same vibration attracts two people who perceive and 'deal' with that vibration in their own unique ways... based on their individual state.
"that woman had her own unconscious shadows that were triggered by the Presence of an individual who vibrates intense frequencies"
And vice versa.
"this whole thing about someone being agro on someone and that person getting attacked must own or take responsibility for the actions and choices of the person attacking is BULLSHIT!
absolute new age crap that perpetuates a "blame the victim" mentality "
its not about taking responsibility for the actions of others or condoning it.. per se, its about realising the nature of what we attract into our lives and how our sub-conscious does this.
I have my own experiences that are entirely convincing to me.. the proof is in the pudding..
:) -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Sat, June 28, 2008 - 7:26 PMNick says:
"its not about taking responsibility for the actions of others or condoning it.. per se, its about realising the nature of what we attract into our lives and how our sub-conscious does this.
I have my own experiences that are entirely convincing to me.. the proof is in the pudding.. "
That seems to me to be another way of still "blaming the victim". I understand the "logic" of this notion of how/why we attract things into our lives, but I'm not entirely convinced it's not delusion born from a desire to control everything and be all-powerful. I took a course in this and at first I was deeply invested in the philosophy, but over time I saw myself and many others creating so much more suffering for themselves and others by trying in vain to be responsible for everything that was happening in their lives.
I believe in Accountability, but I wonder how far that goes. I feel that we're supposed to not be all-powerful so that we can remain humble, gracious and compassionate. As the saying goes, "Absolute Power Absolutely Corrupts".
All the same, I don't really know anything. I'm living in the Question, staring at the Mystery. -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's?
Sat, June 28, 2008 - 8:25 PMthere are many issues to come to terms with on this path...
not the least of which being that YOU ARE ALL POWERFUL. yet power itself as it is traditionally defined is an illusion... since you cannot NOT be all powerful.
the sequence of victim-ness starts when we assume we are not all powerful... as does just about everyone on earth...
each time we feel victimised we reinforce the belief that 'victim' exists... The more we believe this the more we experience it and the more it is reinforced (just like ALL beliefs)..
There is no blame other than that which you personally create.
You will not 'get' this unless you spend considerable time investigating paradox. I will go as far as to say that paradox is the only real lesson there is.
the only thing you need to know is 'I AM'..
thankyou for being you, for without you there would be no me.. no sun.. no nothing.. and thats a fact ( for me .... hehe)..
:) -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's? - Mirror reflections
Sun, June 29, 2008 - 7:48 AMWe are not responsible for other peoples feelings and actions and neither are they responsible for ours... BUT.... having said that.. we also need to go below the superficial part-truth of that statement. If an unloving person is attacking you (mentally, emotionally or physically) then you have the responsibility to yourself (self-love) to not accept this attack, to express your truth and to do what is necessary to stop the attack.... BUT... before you can do that, you have to have begun ending your denials and healing your underlying issues, otherwise, you’ll just be “re-acting” to your old imprints, programs and beliefs and not “responding” to the experience. The more you heal your real issues, the less of a victim you’ll become and the more empowered you will be. You can’t change the outside until you change the inside.
As an example of a mirror image reflection, I’m going to use a school yard bully picking on another child. The bully has many issues, (imprints, programs and beliefs) with one being of not having any power or control. He also has a belief that to have power, means that he has to physically intimidate and control others. He bullies others to compensate for his real feelings, and to feel a sense of self-righteousness, pride, self-worth and power.
The so-called victim also has many issues (imprints, programs and beliefs) and one of them also has to do with having no control or power, but he takes the other end of the denial teeter totter. He has a belief that it’s not right to overpower another or to challenge or get angry at being attacked, so in silence, (self-righteousness, humility ,self-sacrifice, and powerlessness) he attacks himself and allows the bully to attack him to reinforce his belief that he has no power.
This “outer” reflection is not the REAL issue... It simply mirrors what issues each already have (imprints, programs and beliefs). Both the bully and the victim need to address the fundamental issues as to why they already have these certain beliefs created by previous experiences, that may not even be know in their conscious memory. There’s nothing that either one can do with this present situation, except reverse roles, as denial of the original cause hasn’t been addressed and until it is, there can be no healing, just more blaming rage at others or at the self.
Another important thing is that (usually) both people don’t heal their issues at the same time by the same experience. Whoever moves off their state of denial and heals their original issues, will be the one that empowers themselves by “responding” to the experience, while the other person who is still in denial of their real issues will “re-act” to the experience and will move away and find another person to mirror their denials and unresolved issues.
Shenreed
"Healing begins in the Heart" -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's? - Mirror reflections
Sun, June 29, 2008 - 8:35 AMI meant to add that the confusing twist in all this is that at a fundamental level, the bully is seeing himself being reflected by the victim, and the victim is seeing himself being reflected by the bully... as both have the SAME issues... that of feeling they have no power or control... After that, duality (right and wrong) comes onto the scene to effect how this issue is played out. That’s where the old saying comes into play.. “opposites attract.”
Now how that’s played out in a real life experience is opposite and revered. The bully is at one end of the denial spectrum, (teeter-totter) while the victim is at the other opposite end. Each experience is viewed from a reversed or opposite point-of-view. One is attacking while the other is being attacked. If they were from the same polarity and on the same end of the denial teeter-totter with similar imprints, programs and beliefs, then they’d be looking in the same direction and they would be in alignment and in agreement, and there would be no conflict.
Ending ones denials (being vulnerable) also changes our experiences with duality, as there is no longer any need to be right or wrong or to be the victim or bully.
Shenreed
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Re: My Shadow or Another's? - Mirror reflections
Sun, June 29, 2008 - 12:41 PMwow, i should copy/save your post, so i can show it to some people who don't get this! You explained this better than i've ever seen it before!
Kudos :) -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's? - Mirror reflections
Sun, July 20, 2008 - 10:32 PMSorry to have been absent a while here.
I've been shadowboxing on the unearthly-souls tribe.
Boy howdy are there some massive shadow energies there!
It's been a great opportunity to explore the ability to discern whether specific shadow manifestations, or "phantoms" as I just now decided to call them, belong to myself or others. I won't say with certainty that I've mastered the ability to see whether someone is projecting or observing, or which *I'm* doing at any moment, but I definitely feel much more able to do so than ever. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: My Shadow or Another's? - Mirror reflections
Mon, July 21, 2008 - 7:59 AMSo I read Your initial post and sort of skimmed through all the rest. No offense to anyone just alot to catch up on. So, here's my take. Sometimes when integrating our shadow selves and releasing patterns we are confronted by someone else and their patterns that reflect what we are releasing. Part of integrating within ourselves is about recognizing outside ourselves. So maybe we have worked through an issue or way of being within ourself and then on teh outside someone comes to play out the drama for us to recognize it and deal with the energy differently on the outside as well as within our own selves. So if you effectively dealt with this situation you will not "need" to outwardly engage with anyone who reflects these issues or you will be able to recognize it before it happens and therefore avoid it. I hope I made sense. I only feel I was able to half-explain what I am trying to say. Most of my understanding is in feeling and not in words.
Blessings,
Jessie -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's? - Mirror reflections
Mon, July 21, 2008 - 2:25 PMYeah, I find it difficult to adequately write what is felt sometimes too, but I think I feel ya Stonefeather.
Do you feel it summarizes to say that releasing phantoms triggers sympathetic phantom-release from others?
Like attract like and all that, and it does seem that Shadows have a tendency to "congregate" eh?
So while I'm observing all these phantoms I'm seeing outside of me, I'm constantly keeping in mind how they may be reflecting my own phantoms too. I find it's tricky to know when a particular phantom is cleared and I'm observing the sympathetic phantom issuing from another or if I'm witnessing those phantoms because I still have resonating remnants in myself. Any suggestions for that anyone?
Could it be that we've released our phantom and simply from having experience or familiarity with it we can recognize it in another, and the reason those phantoms then get directed towards us is because the host subliminally recognizes we've cleared our own phantom and are looking to us (subliminally) for assistance in clearing it?
If that dynamic is true, then I can also see how tricky this is because of the Ego dynamic with Shadow that lends one to denial and projections. -
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Re: My Shadow or Another's? - Mirror reflections
Mon, July 21, 2008 - 6:51 PM
Marley: "Do you feel it summarizes to say that releasing phantoms triggers sympathetic phantom-release from others"
sounds good to me and also now after releasing or while releasing we are able to more clearly see or recognize the phantom within ourself ( cuz sometimes they like to try and come back) and within others.
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