It's not just about performing...

topic posted Wed, July 1, 2009 - 11:58 AM by  Noodle
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How do you get new students to understand that performing is not all there is to being a bellydancer? To have the privilege to perform means that one must present good technique. You should be able to tell the difference between a beledi rhythm and a tsifitelli. You should at least know what Raks Sharki means. Going to one or two bellydance classes and then saying that you don't want to come back because you're only interested in performing will never get you anywhere. Ballet dancers don't take one or two classes and then turn into prima ballerinas overnight. Learning and being able to graciously present a dance form requires hard work and effort, and years of experience. It is no different within bellydance. I'm just curious, has anyone else had problems like this with beginning students?

posted by:
Noodle
West Virginia
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  • Re: It's not just about performing...

    Wed, July 1, 2009 - 12:36 PM
    There is a performing allure to bellydance because of the way it is presented. I'm not knocking restaurant work (hell I am a restaurant dancer) but something about taking dance off a stage and into a more casual setting tends to have this effect. I also think that the costuming and attitude has a lot to do with the strong drive to perform. Many women try a bellydance class or two as a way to feel sexy, loose weight, or to connect with other women, these people may not see the dance as "high art." Soon they realize that doing hip drops, or across the floor exercises isn't exactly the "sexy" or "fun" angle they were going for, they want to dress up and be seen. There is nothing wrong with students performing in student situations, hafli, showcases, and other "student" labeled events.

    As someone who has studied (and performed) other dance forms I find that MED is just more performance friendly for adults. Little girls may be enamored by tulle and pink stockings, but grown women shudder at the thought of putting on a leotard and toe shoes and performing ballet in front of a crowd, it seems harder, the clothing is less forgiving, and it isn't as sexy, or exotic. The same can be said for many forms of modern dance.

    Another dance form that is experiencing the same "I want to perform now" phenomenon is Burlesque. I wonder why the parrallel exists, do people who take up MED also take burlesque, does it attract similar types of people?
    • Re: It's not just about performing...

      Wed, July 1, 2009 - 1:47 PM
      <<Another dance form that is experiencing the same "I want to perform now" phenomenon is Burlesque. I wonder why the parrallel exists, do people who take up MED also take burlesque, does it attract similar types of people?>>

      I've noticed this too. Perhaps it does have something to do with the Burlesque/Vaudeville trend we're seeing the the BD community these days?
      • Re: It's not just about performing...

        Wed, July 1, 2009 - 2:09 PM
        To be honest I think it has something to do with humoring one's exhibitionist streak. I mean to be totally honest you have to have a little exhibitionist inside you to want to perform ANYTHING in public, no less perform in glittery (and sometimes revealing) costumes.
        I'm also pretty sure it has something to do with the roots of the dance forms. MED comes mostly from folkloric and dances of the "people." Ballet, modern dance, and other stage dances are trained structured dance forms that are far removed from movements done by people in social settings.

        Burlesque also has more common roots and movements that can be attributed to social dances.
        • Re: It's not just about performing...

          Wed, July 1, 2009 - 4:58 PM
          as much as i would like professional bd to be respected as an art form, i think it is VERY important to not degrade the social side of it. (and i do not think those are mutually exclusive goals)
          some people im sure will come into it with the wrong idea, thinking they can learn it in a few classes and then go shake their tits somewhere for attention, and if they don't come back because they realize that it's not what they want, then i think it's ok. at least now they know what is really is, not everyone wants to be what a bellydancer really is. deciding to do something else that will give them what they really are looking for (be it attention, feeling sexy, or instant gratification) is better than someone who decides to twist bd into what they want it to be, right?
          • Re: It's not just about performing...

            Thu, July 2, 2009 - 5:44 AM
            <<as much as i would like professional bd to be respected as an art form, i think it is VERY important to not degrade the social side of it. (and i do not think those are mutually exclusive goals)>>

            I definitely agree. The social side of it I personally think is just as important. To play well with a basketball team, you have to know your team-mates. The same is true if you're in a bellydance troupe. The problem I have here is that the students are not interested in coming to practice at all if it means they can't perform. :( Unfortunately, if they want to do well, it doesn't work like that.
            • Re: It's not just about performing...

              Thu, July 2, 2009 - 8:35 AM
              i mean that performing doesn't always have to be the goal, that it's fine to just dance with friends, with no one watching. or just dance by yourself. it doesn't have to be filmed, or infront of anyone and it doesn't have to be an exercise for performing later. i think you want to learn to bellydance and NEVER want to perform, then that's fine! i don't think EVERY class should be trying to make performers out of all the students, think of the exponential growth if all of everyone's students became performers, talk about competition!
              Noodle, why would you NOT perform if you came to practice? i don't follow what you're saying....
              • Re: It's not just about performing...

                Thu, July 2, 2009 - 2:38 PM
                I'm sorry if I'm not being clear. What I'm trying to say is that some girls have expressed not coming to practice EVER. Girls who have only taken one or two classes in their entire life, and are only interested in participating in a performance. Does that make more sense? What I'm trying to say is, you can't just expect someone to let you perform with them if you don't ever again want to practice.
                • Re: It's not just about performing...

                  Thu, July 2, 2009 - 5:57 PM
                  OOOOHHHH, ok, i get it now. ^_^ sorry for taking this way off topic! i misunderstood. ::blush::
                  behavior like that makes me think of spoiled kids who just whine until their get what they want, instead of working for it. no doubt there is a correlation. good luck with them! i'd say be firm, they have to learn sometime that they need to work for what they want, right?
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                    Re: It's not just about performing...

                    Thu, July 2, 2009 - 6:19 PM
                    <<OOOOHHHH, ok, i get it now. ^_^ sorry for taking this way off topic! i misunderstood. >>

                    Lol, no problem! :-) I'm not always the most articulate in the world. ^.^ Thank you for understanding.

                    Noodle
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                    Re: It's not just about performing...

                    Thu, July 2, 2009 - 6:28 PM
                    I've avoided commenting on this one, but I'll risk the beating to say what I'm thinking. :)

                    I am a longtime advocate of not making dance classes be all about performance. My language reflects this. I don't tell people to "turn to the audience" I tell them to turn to the front. I don't make the learning and dancing about being prepared for an un-named performance. It sets people (especially women... I'm getting to this in a moment...) up to think that their dance isn't valid unless it is witnessed and plauded in some manner.

                    What hooey! We should dance for the joy it creates in us to have movement, not a pat on the head from some anonymous audience member.

                    Back to my "especially women" comment: In my readings on Tribe, I've learned something that I didn't know before... I had no clue that women as teenagers tend to be starved for attention and go to great lengths to gain it. It would make sense to me, then, that taking a class and thinking you are doing well because the teacher is always saying "Good, good..." would lead to wanting the praise and attention of a larger audience who would give even more of that attention and praise.

                    People don't want to practice and get better because the primary goal is not to be a great dancer, but to be SEEN. To be loved for that moment (regardless of the level of talent). And bellydance often seems to give praise unconditionally, even when some dancers aren't in any way ready to be setting foot on a stage.
                    I really think we should focus more on getting people to see that this dance is not about pandering to an audience or "dancing for your sultan" but pandering to oneself through making our dance better. Through really getting INTO our movement. People need to understand that the adulation and respect will come if we do less performances better, rather than many mediocre performances. Put Mommy's bedlah back in the closet and work on your three-quarter shimmy.

                    Just an opinion... Don't overturn a stone wall on me, I mean no offence. :)
                    • Re: It's not just about performing...

                      Thu, July 2, 2009 - 6:53 PM
                      Valizan, i can see what you mean. (although i'll throw out the semantic as food for thought: that teenage females are-for the most part- girls, not women. there is as much a difference between women and girls as between men and boys, and in neither case does it have anything to do with sex, or even nessisarily age. i've talked to 50 yr old girls, and 25 yr old women. it is a semantic tho. i know what you meant ^_~)
                      i read an article in scientific america awhile ago called "the evolution of the b!tch" which talked about why teenage girls CAN be so catty. it mentioned that you don't see that sort of behavior from women who have a reproductive partner, or from menopausal women. it is most intense amongst teenage girls, who are (not consciously, since society has changed so much and a lot of our evolved behaviors still have to cetch up) competing for mates. if the hypothesis from that article is true, it would also explain the attention hungry attitude you've seen. (a little anthropological? i've been watching WAY too much Bones ^_~)
                      "but pandering to oneself through making our dance better" this makes me think of: the mediocre performances are pandering to "ourselves" not to us as a dance community, or to the art of ME dance, but pandering to the attention hungry students.
                    • Re: It's not just about performing...

                      Sun, July 5, 2009 - 9:08 PM
                      Valizan i think this is part of American Culture. THere is little understanding of learning skills simply for the sake of learnng the skills.. practicing and improving for the sake of how it feels to walk around in a body that can do these skills. There has to be a PURPOSE for the learning other than just dancing itself. And it has to be learned NOW.. because Americans have no attention span. Understand that I am American born bred and raised... And i used to be like this.. but i'm getting older now.. and i can appreciate the slow improvements and how lovely it is to feel them when i move..
                • Re: It's not just about performing...

                  Fri, July 3, 2009 - 3:13 AM
                  A friend and fellow teacher commented how her class numbers always increase when there is an upcoming performance opportunity. As I teach for a college course, my situation is different I think. Many of my students look at their clases in terms of keeping fit, exploring a new experience etc
                  Eventually most students who stay with their classes consider they will at least perform in class group dances and many want to go solo. The important thing that we often fail to get over to get over to students is that along with the "right to" and fun of performancecomes the responsibilty of being as well rehearsed and presented as possible whatever the venue because we are an entertainer and representing our dance.
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                    Re: It's not just about performing...

                    Fri, July 3, 2009 - 3:37 AM
                    <<Another dance form that is experiencing the same "I want to perform now" phenomenon is Burlesque. I wonder why the parrallel exists, do people who take up MED also take burlesque, does it attract similar types of people?>>

                    Perhaps it is the perceived "glamor" of the dance forms, although I don't understand why burlesque and/or stripping are thought of as glamorous.
                    • Re: It's not just about performing...

                      Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:07 AM
                      I think THE major incentive is the "all ages, all body types" openness that is promoted so heavily (and rightfully so).

                      If you want to perform ballet or modern dance professionally, chances are high you start in kindergarten, primary school or at the very latest junior high when jazz or modern is concerned. In most people's minds (mine included) if you missed that train, you'll never have another opportunity. If you do not build flexibility and skill as a kid, in these art forms chances are lower than low you'll make a professional activity out of it when starting in your mid or late 20s (when discovering you love to dance and would like to perform and express yourself on stage during your college and university years for example).
                      Now if you get interested in some ethnic dance forms you see you can start "that late" in your 20s or also significantly later - there is enough freedom to express yourself through basic technical movements that most people can learn, more or less well (of course there are different degrees of talent and potential like with EVERY activity), and most people can actually become professional performers if they work towards it, little matter what their ethnicity, age, body type, level of fitness when starting out.

                      I picture with burlesque this counts even more as the sassy or political or simply hilarious performance and character/interpretation seems to be more important than dance steps there. And I think there are even less rules of what you need to perform dance-wise.

                      While not everybody will be a great bellydancer nor performer/artist - potential and opportunities for everybody are MUCH greater than for "stricter"/higher threshold dance art forms like ballet or modern.
          • Re: It's not just about performing...

            Thu, July 2, 2009 - 6:20 AM
            as much as i would like professional bd to be respected as an art form, i think it is VERY important to not degrade the social side of it. (and i do not think those are mutually exclusive goals)

            Yes that's true, in fact, our troupe's favorite "performances" are dance parties at peoples homes!

            Our troupe also sponsors hafla nights at various public venues, where we give students a chance to dance in a safe setting.

            A funny thing I noticed this winter. A group of three or four students was VERY excited about performing, in fact, it was one of the first questions they asked on the very first day! We (I co-teach with another dancer) told them yes, you will get a chance to perform at this event and then that one. But they vanished after just a few classes, and did not attend our hafla. They reappeared at the next session, just as excited about performing as before, and once again, vanished after just two or three classes.

            I'm curious to see if the show up at the fall sessions....
            • Re: It's not just about performing...

              Thu, July 2, 2009 - 2:39 PM
              <<as much as i would like professional bd to be respected as an art form, i think it is VERY important to not degrade the social side of it. (and i do not think those are mutually exclusive goals)>>

              I totally agree with you.
            • Re: It's not just about performing...

              Thu, July 2, 2009 - 2:54 PM
              "as much as i would like professional bd to be respected as an art form, i think it is VERY important to not degrade the social side of it. (and i do not think those are mutually exclusive goals)"

              I completely agree! In my last student recital (which was held in a restaurant that normally has very slow nights that day of the week), after the performances ended I put on some pop music for everyone to just get up and dance as social dance, AFTER we had all changed back into normal-person clothes. We were able to recruit some audience members to join us as well. I was happy that my students had the opportunity to experience social-style dancing as part of that event, and I was happy to show it to the people who came to the recital.
      • Comparing Belly Dance to Other Social Dances

        Thu, July 2, 2009 - 6:41 PM
        Could it also be because belly dance is sometimes taught in dance studios that have other classes don't have on-going lessons? In the past, I've taken belly dance and swing lessons in the same studio. Now, with swing dancing, I've taken a few lessons and I can dance it well enough to do it at weddings or other social events. That gives me a chance to "show off" my skills. However, when I belly dance in public it's almost always been a "performance." Is it possible that belly dance students feel the need to perform because they're comparing it to other dance classes (like swing, fox-trot, waltz, polka), but the only time that seems acceptable to use their skills is by performing? Yes, they can learn a few jitterbug steps in 6 weeks and use it at their cousin's wedding, but where are they going to use their belly dance moves other than a performance?

        I know we like to compare belly dance to ballet, tap, and other performance dances that take years of training, but I don't think everyone else sees it that way.
        • (sorry im talking to much on this thread)
          i bellydance at parties. and at the dance club. it's the only way i know how to dance! (my friend and i were out, we started dancing and she pretty much just does the sway with the music "white girl dance" (her words ^_~) she looked at my hips and said "oh, i forgot you have the skills" hahaha) of course it's different if you're dancing at a wedding or something. like Shira said "I was happy that my students had the opportunity to experience social-style dancing as part of that event" if you go to a local Middle Eastern festival where there is open dancing you see it, i think it was mentioned on another thread (the one about the "anna raqissa" shirt, i think) how people "hold back" to not look too professional. it also looks (*at American festivals to my eyes*) that it's sortta just less dancing to show off and more dancing to have fun, so less arm framing, some more repetitive "getting into the move" etc.
          i see how students wouldn't feel like they have a chance to use what they learn, but i disagree that that feeling is accurate. ^_^
  • Re: It's not just about performing...

    Thu, July 2, 2009 - 11:33 PM
    One thing I do in my classes, especially at the beginner level, is to set aside a few minutes in every class to improvise. Even the very first day of class. I tell them to pretend they're out clubbing with their friends, and choosing to use the belly dance moves I've taught them so far instead of whatever their previous clubbing dance style was. And each time I do this, I remind them that they are doing exactly what the Egyptians at the weddings I've attended do - just having fun doing the movement for its own sake, with no intention of having an "audience". The first night of class I have them face the mirror, but as we do more of this in follow-on classes I have them form a circle as if they were a group of friends out clubbing together.
    • Re: It's not just about performing...

      Fri, July 3, 2009 - 4:10 AM
      "And each time I do this, I remind them that they are doing exactly what the Egyptians at the weddings I've attended do - just having fun doing the movement for its own sake, with no intention of having an "audience". The first night of class I have them face the mirror, but as we do more of this in follow-on classes I have them form a circle as if they were a group of friends out clubbing together."

      This is the first time I hear of an American or European dance teacher pointing this out to students!!!
      How amazing!!
      • yeah baby!

        Fri, July 3, 2009 - 8:53 AM
        Some of the younger teachers don't just point it out, they go out clubbing with their students!
        • Re: yeah baby!

          Fri, July 3, 2009 - 9:03 AM
          Dear Gang,
          As long as it is pointed out to students that there is a huge difference between the quality of dance when we are just out clubbing and what will be expected of us on the professional stage.
          When we are out doing the Arab clubs, ( or wherever) it is not like we are going to get out there and dance like we would during a professional performance. We are instead part of a crowd, having fun, not necessarily doing artistic justice to the dance because the dance is not our main focus while clubbing. The purpose of clubbing is very different than the purpose of performing professionally. One is to build community together, to join in with fellow dancers who are all just having a ball together. The other is to provide an audience with a quality experience in dance, in which most people in the room are not going to be participating in any other capacity except observing.This changes the entire nature of the dance experience, and I think its very important to make sure students understand that.
          Regards,
          A'isha
          • Re: yeah baby!

            Fri, July 3, 2009 - 10:44 AM
            ...and putting some above thoughts together.
            Yes, performing and social dancing are different. Beautifully so.
            There is no need to put one "over" the other. I think that's where part of the problem lies.
            • Re: yeah baby!

              Fri, July 3, 2009 - 10:58 AM
              Dear Samira,
              I think I would say the opposite, unless I am misunderstanding you. I think part of the problem lies when students and even some who profess to be professional dancers, do not understand that dancing on the social level and dancing professionally are vastly different for many reasons.
              I agree that one is not better than the other, but being a social dancer does not present the same kinds of requirements that being a professional dancer does. Social dancing does not require the same amount of training, it has a different psychological meaning and sociological place. This is rarely explained to students, who get easily confused about it. In fact, i know of several professionals who do not make the distinction to their students at all, or, apparently to themselves either. They treat sha'abi and sharghi as if they were one and the same, which they are not.
              Regards,
              A'isha
          • Re: yeah baby!

            Sat, July 4, 2009 - 1:08 AM
            Most definitely.
            Most people are not going to pay anyone for doing the same social dancing they would be doing in the middle of a crowd.
            I think of the bellydancer as a "master of ceremony", because in most settings I am aware of the audience massively participates, and is invited to do so. Not through all songs, but through the popular ones yes.

            I got Shira's post in the sense that she tells students the dance moves she teaches them are not some extraordinary stuff that can be seen on stages only, which is the case with ballet for example in the West, but this is the - often glamorized and "exaggerated" way of moving that evey little girl, Granny and often also men do in the Mideast at festivities. This is something I have not seen Western dance students understand - namely that virtually every Egyptian woman can shimmy shoulders and hips, and dances this way when dancing to popular music or baladi etc.

            I see the ambition is there to present the audience with something "high end", better than they can do themselves, but I must say firstly, as someone said - many Arab women will hold back very much when dancing in public (I do so myself - I am aware of family members of friends of mine at almost every wedding filming girls or taking pictures later slandering their names for having danced "like a professional", which for the stricter families is a big insult; so is taking bellydance lessons by the way, I brought one of my Egyptian friends to a major family crisis when I accidentally mentioned we were taking classes to her cousin).
            And secondly even on the very high end performance dvds I have purchased recently by IAMED I was somewhat disappointed in many of the professional performances, not only musical interpretation wise which can differ considerably between non Arabs and Arabs, but also technique wise.. so I think very often being better than the audience members is an illusion for people who learned the dance pretty late in their lives. I think every professional dancer should see ladies at home dance freely at least once, to put the average natural skill of her audience members into perspective.
            • Re: yeah baby!

              Sat, July 4, 2009 - 7:49 AM
              Dear Dina,
              I did not learn pretty late in my life, and I see a lot of difference between what happens at Arab parties when the girls dance and what happens on the professional stage. It is not just a matter of holding back on the dance floor, as anyone who has any class will do. The Arab women that I have hung around with most of my adult life can really let loose when it is just us, (meaning an all girl party).
              Most social dance in almost any country has a professional counterpart. It is not just belly dance that is like that. For example, there is Hip-hop that the neighborhood kids do,and there is professional exhibition Hip-hop. Professional Debke looks different than debkes at parties. Same with the Latin dances, Russian folk dance, etc, etc,etc. Often it is the same movement base and music, with other elements, such as blocking, projection, carriage, psychological purpose, etc, being different than what is seen on the social dance floor. If professional dance were only about movement, then I would agree that much is the same in shaabi and sharghi, but since movement is just one element of dance, that changes everything. Also the professional dancer knows who to build on fundamental movement usually much more thoroughly than the housewife does. There are some few excellent people dancing out there, but not for the most part. They are about like the average person who goes out to dance for the evening here. They are good, but a pro would be better on the stage.
              I think there is also a big difference in how native professionals think about stage presence and how western dancers do. For one thing, natives, I think, see the dance as every bit as large as life, but not larger, not more perfect, not more romantic, not more dramatic. In other words, what happens on the stage does not so much dramatize things as merely be a part of them. In the west, if we put it on stage, we expect it to be magical and perfect and , well..... larger than life. There is not this same expectation in countries of origin, I notice.
              Regards,
              A'isha
              • Re: yeah baby!

                Sat, July 4, 2009 - 12:06 PM
                "For one thing, natives, I think, see the dance as every bit as large as life, but not larger, not more perfect, not more romantic, not more dramatic. In other words, what happens on the stage does not so much dramatize things as merely be a part of them. In the west, if we put it on stage, we expect it to be magical and perfect and , well..... larger than life. There is not this same expectation in countries of origin, I notice."

                That is a very accurate perception I believe.

                As for the few excellent people - that could be my bias, because I have always gotten on the best with girls who like me love to dance all night, and do it well.
                Also I believe there is a huge difference between "diaspora" communities and the original thing - Nagwa Foad once said to a foreign dancer on TV her expression is missing, "every Egyptian woman can hizz (shimmy) like you" she said, and I believe she is right. I see amongst the "Western" Arab girls that we simply cannot dance the way the people dance in the native lands.

                And well yes - the "larger than life" and better skill than the native untrained dancers should hold for Western pros - but frequently I see this is really not the case. I see it in restaurant performances over here a lot, but I also did in the US (NYC, where I spent a few months). And well even on high end performance dvds I keep thinking with a pretty large proportion the dance skill is not on the technical level even an untrained native dancer has. (Going somewhat with my earlier post that I think ballet and modern dance have higher thresholds for professional performers, at least in my perception.)
                • Re: yeah baby!

                  Sat, July 4, 2009 - 12:50 PM
                  Dear Dina,
                  Many times the women that I know are here for a short while and then gone home again, or have just arrived and so they still have that basic cultural element in their dance, their cooking styles, their ways of communicating, etc. But I DO see a difference in the second generation Arab girls who's parents arrived here as first generation immigrants. The second generation girls are really into the "I do my own thing" philosophy of dance, so I see completely where you are coming from for sure.
                  I think that there are not really very many western dancers who can accurately portray native dance. There are so very few western Egyptian style dancers among those who claim to be performing Egyptian belly dance, for example, and I think the same thing is true of Turkish dance. Lebanese modern seems to be a closer style, though many of the western dancers sort of overdo with complex technique when trying to emulate that style as well. I think one problem is that somewhere along the line, it became all about physical technique to the great detriment of all other elements of the dance, especially any that are culture based. This emphasis on technique only has sort of sucked the essence out of the dance styles they claim to be dancing.
                  Regards,
                  A'isha
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: yeah baby!

                    Sat, July 4, 2009 - 11:49 PM
                    yes, very true!
                    • Re: yeah baby!

                      Sun, July 5, 2009 - 1:25 AM
                      A'isha,
                      No, you misunderstood, or I didn't make myself clear. They are most definitely different.
                      Part of the problem as you mentioned is that some teachers don't differentiate.
                      I believe another part of the problem lies in people making "performers" out as being "more important" than social dancing or student dancing (when I see all of us as simply different and sometimes overlapping parts of a community). I think people like to create a hierarchy, when there is no need of one.
                      • Re: yeah baby!

                        Sun, July 5, 2009 - 7:28 AM
                        Dear Samira,
                        I understand what you are saying now and I agree that one s not more "important" than the other. They serve two different functions and have two different meanings. People all over the world do tend to make celebrities of any kind out to be somehow more important than other people. Look at what we do with sports figures, rappers, models and Dr. Phil!! LOL!!
                        Regards,
                        A'isha
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                    Re: yeah baby!

                    Mon, July 6, 2009 - 8:42 AM
                    A'isha-
                    This may not be the appropriate thread for an answer to this question, but who are some modern dancers in the west who do come close to dancing truer to the Egyptian/Turkish styling? I would like to know because I want to emulate these women. Please feel free to answer me in a private email if you would be more comfortable doing so.

                    Thanks,
                    ZD
                    • Re: yeah baby!

                      Mon, July 6, 2009 - 9:01 AM
                      Dear Ziva,
                      I think that there is nothing wrong with stating who is good at what they do on a public forum! I wish we would do more of that in fact!! First, I have to say that am more qualified to talk about Egyptian dancers than I am about Turkish or Lebanese. I have studied those two styles but not in anywhere near the depth that I have studied Egyptian belly dance and folkloric dances from N. Africa. There came a point in my life when I had to choose an avenue of dance because I realized that there was no time to become truly "expert" in all of them. Egyptian dances and Gulf dances seemed to be the area where I had the most talent and inherent ability, so I followed my "Bliss" as Joseph Campbell said to do!!
                      I think that Shareen El Safy is the finest teacher of Egyptian Belly dance in the United States.
                      Ranya Renee is a wonderful dancer in Egyptian style as are Lucy of Washington DC and Zahras Suheir and Sahra Kent ( Saidah). I also have expertise in both teaching and performing Egyptian style, with 35 years of training and study with the very best of the western dancers and many natives, as well as a natural inclination toward the style.

                      For Lebanese, Mark Balahadia is my outstanding favorite. He is an excellent dancer and a great teacher as well. IN facrt, it is really rare to find Lebanese stye dancers here, I think. ( I am throwing Lebanese in to give Mark a shameless plug since he is a dear friend and I love him!!)

                      For Turkish I LOVE Jennet. She is by far a most wonderfuldancer in the Turkish style. Do keep in mind that this is not my field of deep expertise. My studies in this style are limited. Jennet is a fabulous Rom dancer as well, having studied intimately with Reyhan Tsuzuz and her family, and having an inherent talent for the style. The only problem is that I am not sure if she is even in the Sates right now. Last time we talked emailed she was in Turkey and on her way to England, I think.

                      Regards,
                      A'isha
                      • Re: yeah baby!

                        Mon, July 6, 2009 - 7:58 PM
                        Lucy of DC's teacher, Yasmin is FANTASTIC A'isha. She used to work "over there" with Mona Said, Shoo Shoo Amin, Sahar Hamdi and more. Yasmin isn't performing anymore, but she and Artemis Mourat (Turkish style expert) together have turned out TONS of pro dancers in this area. Mark Balahadia took from both of them as well.
              • Re: yeah baby!

                Sun, July 5, 2009 - 7:34 PM
                "Often it is the same movement base and music, with other elements, such as blocking, projection, carriage, psychological purpose, etc, being different than what is seen on the social dance floor. "

                A'isha, could you elaborate on this? although i can easily see a higher level of polish in a professional dancer from a social dancer, im having a hard time putting words to the perception, other than "polish". if we're not too far off topic, i would love to hear you're thoughts on it. ^_^
                • Re: yeah baby!

                  Mon, July 6, 2009 - 8:03 AM
                  Dear Fariha,
                  I would say "polish" is only part of what makes a professional dancer different than someone who is out having fun dancing with their friends. Polish comes with practice and intent, another thing that the social dancer does not have to worry about. I will try to explain without using my physical self, but that is kind of hard for me. In the classroom situation, it is easier because I can physically demonstrate what I am talking about rather than just use words to explain what is essentially manifested with a physical being.

                  Blocking- has to do specifically with the way a dancer uses space. In the West in dance, this is primarily a horizontal thing, but in Middle Eastern dance, the professional dancer utilizes vertical space even more so. When horizontal space is used, it is specifically to show movement and emotion in a certain light. The professional dancer must consider the space to be danced in, while the person partying on the dance floor only has to be aware not to disrupt the other dancers. Space is often extremely limited for the social dancer and movement usually is somewhat curtailed because of it. The idea is not be be the prime focus of attention except in cases where one is, perhaps put into the center of a circle for a minute or two,or something similar, and then that focus on the individual is very brief.

                  Projection- is really not part of the social dancer's purpose. Projection of personality and emotional is at a minimum except in the "having fun" aspect. There is not a gamut of emotion, the idea is not to have force of personality as much as it is to share a moment in time with the other social dancers, be on the same wavelength, etc. The community connection is very strong and so the alpha personality of a performer is not necessary unless one is purposely showing off, which may or may not be appropriate for more than a minute or two. (See the circle thing above..)

                  Carriage- I have noted a strong difference in the way that professional belly dancers in the Middle East and N/ Africa carry themselves on stage as opposed to the carriage or every day posture of the average social dancer. There is something in the upper body, a tension or unconscious awareness of being the center of attention that you see, actually in most entertainers around the world, that is evident in professionals. I really think it is a physical tool of projection.

                  Psychological purpose- I think this is most important of all. The psychological purpose of social dancing is to build community. Dancing as a group for fun at a party or club is entirely different than dancing as a professional single entity. I think there is even a difference between dancing as a professional group. The psychological purpose of professional dancing is to call attention to the dance itself, to present the audience with a thing to be observed for the most part and not participated in. I fully realize that most Middle Eastern and Egyptian dancers do have a part in their shows where they go out and dance in and with the audience, but if you think about it, that is usually during a Saidi or Beledi interlude and not during belly dance. Both Saidi and Beledi have their social counterparts and in fact are known as social dances. Belly dance started its life as a stage entertainment and has a different psychology. You do get members of an audience who will stand up and dance for a few seconds, but they understand that they are for the most part going to be observers. They do not spend even 5 minutes usually, physically interacting with the dancer or the music if the dancer is on stage.

                  During my own shows I have often noticed that the Arabs get up and dance for a minute or two, even if I am on a stage far away from them. This could be for any number of reasons. They may love the dancing and feel compelled to join in for a moment. They may love the song I am dancing to and give in to the urge to dance along, just like happens at rock concerts in the West. They may know the guy who wrote the song, or just feel like moving instead of sitting for a minute.

                  Any way, I hope this has been more helpful than I feel like it is. I have a difficult time explaining myself without use of my body when it comes to dance.
                  Regards,
                  A'isha

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