This makes me sad

topic posted Sun, October 11, 2009 - 11:13 AM by  Shira
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This photo of a dancer, who I assume from her arm/hand carriage is a student, is being posted on some "humorous photo" sites. It makes me said to see a plus-sized person in a dance costume, being mocked in this way:

www.funpicsfree.com/Fat-Belly-Dancer.htm
www.all4humor.com/picture/f...ancer.html
www.dorks.com/pics/fat_belly_dancer.html

Of course, there's always the possibility that she CHOSE to make her photo available to these web sites, and if she did, I respect her choice and retract my criticisms of where it is being posted and what people are saying. But I'm thinking it's more likely that some innocent student danced in a hafla, someone in the audience put them online on one of the photo sites, and then from there the photo started being posted elsewhere.
posted by:
Shira
Iowa
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  • Re: This makes me sad

    Sun, October 11, 2009 - 1:12 PM
    So I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to post it here? Do you see yourself as being part of a solution.. or perhaps as part of the problem?
    • Re: This makes me sad

      Sun, October 11, 2009 - 2:00 PM
      To invite people to comment on whether they feel there are practical actions we, as a community, can take to counter this sort of thing?

      What should we do when we run into something like this?

      Should we ignore it and dismiss the guys who posted it as immature idiots? Should we tell the person whose photo is being used in this way (if we know who it is) so she can ask that it be removed? Or would it be hurtful to do that, without achieving any positive aim? Should we post comments on the sites where it appears telling them we don't see anything funny about such a photo, or would doing so reward them by giving them increased web activitiy and attention?

      Or, maybe as a warning to dancers that if we post photos of people dancing at our haflas (or of our own students in recitals, or of ourselves), they could be taken by someone else and used out of context?

      But again, if the dancer CHOSE to make her image available to those sites, then I would NOT criticize her for doing so and I would retract my objections.
      • Re: This makes me sad

        Mon, October 12, 2009 - 10:30 PM
        You ask some very important questions, Shira.
        Multiple humor sites? 40K plus views?
        Although i could be wrong, the intent does not appear to be in good faith regarding this dancer, her performance, or her self esteem.
        As members of the dance community, what is our role or responsibility? what do we do if anything? and to what end?
  • Re: This makes me sad

    Sun, October 11, 2009 - 2:05 PM
    Dear Shira,
    I used to be a thin, young, lovely dancer. Now I am an overweight, older, but still lovely dancer. I have had to learn to do a lot different costuming with the weight gain, saggy skin, etc. I think the problem is not so much that she is overweight as it is that she does not know how to costume for her body flaws, which we all should do it we are trying to put our best foot forward. Even thinner dancers have flaws to hide. She has that lovely, sweet face and then she does not even try to costume in an appropriate way, so people probably do not notice it. THAT is what I find sad, along with the fact that her teacher never took the time to help her with costuming that wou;d be more appro[riate to her size.
    Rsgards,
    A'isha
    • Re: This makes me sad

      Thu, October 15, 2009 - 12:52 PM
      Hmm.. I may not be able to comment on costuming for plus sizes.
      Could it be possible she feels good in this outfit?
      If yes.. if she finds her rounder figure nice in this dance, why advise her to conceal what mainstream 21st century view sees as a flaw?
      I can't tell whether I would have found her figure very aesthetical in dancing.. we are all (or most of us are) too influenced by beauty ideals at the given time and place.. but I can surely magine she might feel good herself in that lovely costume.
      She does look very cute in the overall impression!
    • Re: This makes me sad

      Fri, October 16, 2009 - 9:00 PM
      >> I think the problem is not so much that she is overweight as it is that she does not know how to costume for her body flaws, which we all should do it we are trying to put our best foot forward. <<

      a far as the costumes goes, trying to find the right type of costumes is hard for a plus size person. . Just like any good looking, well fitting clothing for Plus size. If she wasn't in a troupe set outfit, she did well with the color, and pattern that she found.

      She seems to be loving the dance...
      • Re: This makes me sad

        Sat, October 17, 2009 - 3:24 AM
        As long as she posted her photo, there is no problem with this thread..even if she didn't the right comments have been made about that instance.
        My opinion on her is that she is a beautiful woman and not concerned about covering up her unfashionable flesh.
        I hope for her health's sake that she loses some weight as she gets older but otherwise she is an example to all women to get on and do what you like doing even if you don't seem to fit into others' images .
        I would have thought there are more flattering costumes for the larger girl but that's her choice and she is not abiding by anyone's rules but her own! All power to her.
        • Re: This makes me sad

          Sat, October 17, 2009 - 5:18 AM
          Liz-
          I agree...I really don't see the point in this even being discussed without her being privvy to this discussion but I do agree...she is an example for those who are larger than the skinny minnies we've been taught are "it".
      • Re: This makes me sad

        Sat, October 17, 2009 - 7:56 AM
        Dear Ingtegral,
        I AM now one of those overweight women, though until about 12 years ago I was quite thin. I would not be caught dead in that costume because , I am sorry, a big naked stretchmarked belly is NOT attractive and definitely distracts from the beauty and quality of the dance. The fact that the costume itself is pretty and that the color looks good on her is not doing anything to make HER look better. She needs different costuming. I am a professional theatrical costumers as well as a dancer and I would not have let her wear that on my stage.
        I that sounds creul, look below and see that I have pointed out a lot of positive things about here as well, but regardless, she still needs to wear something else in order to portray the dance at its best..... and in the end, is it not supposed to be about the dance?
        Regards,
        A'isha
  • Re: This makes me sad

    Sun, October 11, 2009 - 8:30 PM
    I would agree with you - I feel it is unfortunate that people may be using this photo as a (lame) attempt at humor. As someone who is no longer as thin as I used to be and who started dancing after the weight gain, I understand completely what it takes to get up in front of people and not feel at your perfect best of what society thinks "this is a belly dancer". I don't think most of society can be educated to realize that one does not need to be a size 0 or 2 in order to be a good belly dancer. I have seen, met, and become friends with some bb/plus sized dancers who are absolutely amazing and blow me away with their talent. If I knew the dancer, I would personally make her aware of it to determine if she knew about it
  • Re: This makes me sad

    Mon, October 12, 2009 - 7:30 AM
    I think she's lovely....her costume could have had some draping or maybe a power mesh cover if that would make her more comfortable....But women come in all weights,shapes and sizes and being happy with who you are is more important than a dress size..... I think that the comments made were cruel....
    • Re: This makes me sad

      Mon, October 12, 2009 - 4:57 PM
      It's disheartening that so many people lack basic courtesy and manners. The comments under the photos are just as bad as posting the photo to be ridiculed. How would the posters feel if the photo was of someone they knew, like their moms, aunts, sisters, or even daughters?
  • Re: This makes me sad

    Mon, October 12, 2009 - 7:52 AM
    im all for concern for someone's health and (depending on the person's personality) tough love, but there is a big difference between that and what is going on in those links.
    perhaps one can take solace in the fact that the people posting the hurtful comments are likely very sad and discontent with themselves. for me it just makes it more depressing tho
  • Re: This makes me sad

    Tue, October 13, 2009 - 8:34 AM
    This dancer has a lovely face and smile, and the color looks good on her.

    If my picture was used like this, I'd like to know about it. I have pretty thick skin, I can usually laugh at myself, but I'd like to know.

    The kind of person who posts nasty, anonymous comments on a public board is not the kind of person worth worrying about.

    I didn't read all the comments, but I was glad to see a number of comments that were quite supportive of this dancer.

    And yeah, if she submitted it herself, then more power to her.

    Years ago, a popular singing telegram in this area was a 350+ lb belly dancer. She was able to dance - but she also did stuff I found unappealing, like grabbing men by their ears and rubbing their face in her chest.
  • Re: This makes me sad

    Tue, October 13, 2009 - 9:36 AM
    I think its very cruel to ridicule her that way. If I saw something like that and I knew who it was, I would definitely want to tell the person in question. Its terrible that people think posting hateful comments about a lovely woman is funny.
  • Re: This makes me sad

    Thu, October 15, 2009 - 8:17 AM
    ya know... as dancers, we put ourselves out there whether we are good or not, fat or not, cabaret or not, and with that exposure comes all kinds of reactions from the extremely positive to the extremely negative. We have to develop a thick skin because people are always going to be people and often they can be cruel. I sometimes wonder if my picture isn't out there on one of those childish sites and I know it would hurt if it was but I put myself out here as a public dancer so I know that not everyone is going to like what they see.

    Since it is not known if the dancer herself put the picture up on those sites (although I can't imagine why she would), I would just add a positive comment if you feel it necessary.

    as far as being a community of dancers.... I always try to help newbies who are heavier learn how to make or buy costuming that is flattering to their unique figures... I also help them modify moves to suit their bodies better (if necessary) and most of all I support every effort they make to make the dance their own. I encourage them to take classes and not to worry about what other folks in class look like (cuz really, the smaller folks should be just as concerned about what the teacher is teaching and not about the size of the new girl).
    • Re: This makes me sad

      Thu, October 15, 2009 - 3:49 PM
      I like the idea of just making a positive comment and moving on. If I knew the dancer, I might tell her it was up there, but then again I might not...she might be better off not knowing. It's not as though many people I like or respect spend their time surfing those sites, anyway. I sometimes won't even click on a friend's link if I see it goes to collegehumor or some site like that.

      I read my share of trash (People magazine, I Can Has Cheezburger, Failblog), but I like to think it's quality trash. Going to really mean websites just makes me feel like a bully, even if I'm just looking and upping their counts.
  • Pretty girl, pretty costume...

    Thu, October 15, 2009 - 6:25 PM
    Pretty girl, pretty costume, quite probably wearing a troupe costume. Seems to be happy to be dancing, go her. The unfortunate fact is that anything done in public is fair game for someone with a camera/video camera. Yes, I think a positive response when coming across sites like this is a good thing. No, I would not be happy if this girl was my daughter and she was the subject of this thread here in Shira's tribe.
    • Re: Pretty girl, pretty costume...

      Thu, October 15, 2009 - 10:15 PM
      Should I delete this thread?
      • Re: Pretty girl, pretty costume...

        Fri, October 16, 2009 - 6:42 AM
        Dear Shira,
        I am a firm believer in not deleting ANY threads. This is what people think and say and it can be painful at times, but such is life. Speaking out in threads sometimes means we have to apologize or retract something later. I think forums help us own what we think and say.
        Regards,
        A'isha
        • Re: Pretty girl, pretty costume...

          Fri, October 16, 2009 - 7:27 AM
          I dont think there is anything wrong with this thread. I think there is something wrong with the sites that have her picture as something to be laughed at. I think this thread is helpful for understanding how to handle situations like this. As a heavy woman myself, I welcome threads like this that share feelings and understanding. It shows me that people care and are concerned for the feelings and welfare of others that may be in a hurtful situation. There is nothing negative that I can see here so I would leave it up.
  • Re: This makes me sad

    Fri, October 16, 2009 - 1:40 PM
    First, I get positively incensed at how in America anyone over a size zero is stigmatized. I have seen so many beautiful women in my classes who were ashamed of their stomachs because they are a little meaty--but that's the source of life and a woman's power. I try to convey to them a greater appreciation for their form...I've been skinnier and heavier than I am now so I know both ends of this spectrum and the feelings associated with both.

    A troupe I know got into an argument over something similar...a very wonderful dancer was passed over for a bellygram in favor of someone who was thin. Ok-John Q. Public can get what he wants if he pays--I get that. But, when did our society get to the point where the whole "thin is in" mentality became "thinner is better". (shakin' my head here)?

    The women in those photos must have known she'd be photographed. If SHE is ok with her costuming then it's nobody else's business in my opinion. I applaud heavy women who get up and dance. Could there have been a more appropriate costuming option? Sure. If SHE wanted it. But, in this picture I see none of the shame/anxiety that a lot of more voluptuous women have when they think they may have to "bare all" as to their figure. She seems happy. Enough said.

    In the 10 years I've been involved in this dance I can say positively that some of the BEST dancers I've ever seen were heavier. And, some of the very worst were beautiful and skinny by American standards.

    Ok-stepping off my soapbox now! (grins!)

    ZD
    • Re: This makes me sad

      Fri, October 16, 2009 - 2:14 PM
      "If SHE wanted it. But, in this picture I see none of the shame/anxiety that a lot of more voluptuous women have when they think they may have to "bare all" as to their figure."
      That is what I thought when seeing her. She's extremely positive in that photo, charisma wise.
  • Re: This makes me sad

    Mon, October 26, 2009 - 10:24 PM
    I think this is sad a well. She is a beautiful dancer. I applaud her. I tend to be more covered when I dance than any other time. My husband has at times bugged me enough that I do have a few costumes that don't cover as much but I don't wear them much but I would like to. She looks so confident and happy like I would like to feel in my costumes. I think it is wonderful. I don't think large dancers or for that matter any dancers of any size or age should have to feel bad about our looks it should be about the dance.

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