of course you're a ballerina- so am I, can't you see my natural arch? anyone with a good point like that MUST be a ballerina... & I could do a bellyroll when I was 4- that's why I'm a natural belly dancer too...

Hi Liz

The word idoit came from the way she came across when she spoke, it was very airhead, and girlie girl, i know that comes across as sweet to some, but you should have seen everyones face in my living room when she opened her mouth.
I guess the Brits are not ones for over the top sugar.

You can be nice, even sweet without comming across as false, she was probably just over doing it, nerves or something, but again a male friend of mine pointed out that she appeared a bit dim, she obviousl;y can't be that dim if she has regular resterant work comming in so fair dues, but as i said the Brits don't like over the top sugar. For some reason it grates us.
People from different upbringings, and cultures will view the way she came across differently.
For instance Sophie Mai from last year came across as sweet but left the ditz out of it, she was another very attractive girl, and i had no problem with her, but i guess i took to her better because of the way she presented herself, she seemed more genuine.


Of course there is nothing wrong with being blonde, and slim, etc etc, my point got lost in my bitching....that its not good enough to get through as a dancer, on looks alone, she should not have got to the semi finals
There are tons of slim beautiful girls but they don't all don a costume and expect to get through on Talent shows just on their looks.

I should have chosen my words more carefully, but i have never been one for political correctness, unfortunately i shoot from the hip.

If its any consolation i am as critical of my own short commings as i am of others, i think i expect too much sometimes, especially from people who claim to be professional.

As for GP dancers not knowing what a good belly dancer is, that isn't a fair assessment, after all how would we be able to idendify the not so good ones, if we hadn't seen half decent, even good M.E.D dancers? i admit our belly dance scene isn't as huge as that in America, however we do have a much smaller poplualtion, and not every one wants to belly dance.
What i will say, up untill very recently, is that alot of the styles taught where truer to form in the sense that the better teachers taught a specific style, as opposed to everything being fusion of one sort of another.
And yes i do like fusion, i recently did a workshop with Rose Harden that my teacher orgainsed, and really liked it, but i still think its important to learn the traditional M.E.D styles.
Fusion has recently taken off here , but it now seems to be the bulk of performance styles.
Of course we have our bad teachers but from what i've heard from class mates when they have taken workshops abroad, including the States is that unfortunately you have your fair share too.
I got told one little horror story about a workshop that was supposed to be for belly dance, and the dancers where told to sit cross legged, and then touch the floor with their nose, it turned out to be more a yoga workshop, and about the teacher showing off how flexable she was rather than M.E.D, yet it was billed as a belly dance workshop.
And whilst our events are not as big again as some of the do's over the pond, we do have Morrocco, Afra, etc who every year teach at our Celebrating Dance event, and the Raqs Britannia, and other events where teachers from the Middle East are brought in to teach.
There is alson the Josephine Wise summer school for belly dancing where she also brings in the like sof Jim Boz, and otther teachers from around the globe to teach.
Maybe i am just lucky with my teacher, who actually encourages, and orgainises workshops and classes with other teachers to get a feel for different techniques, and/or to get a taste of other styles
She also takes workshops with other teachers, and travels yearly to the states for events.

I think her willing for learning is probably what make her a good dancer, and a good teacher.

The BDSS are good for what they are...entertainment and yes they are showy, but they can dance, which is why they appeal, i have no problem with stunning women dancing, as long as they are good, after all thats what i'd be paying my cash to see.
If i paid cash to see Julia of BGT, i would have been very disappointed.
I have seen them perform live at the Anvil, and will be taking th B.F along again in october to see the,
I know its not the same as what he saw in Turkey or Egypt but i'm sure he'll enjoy it all the same.

Dear Liz,
Several years ago I defended the right of Miles Copeland and the BDSS to choose young, beautiful women to represent the dance. I told him and the dancers on another forum that I would not pay to see the show, having seen them on video and found their show seriously lacking. So, he challenged me to go and see a live show. I stated that he would have to buy me a ticket if he wanted that to happen. Gentleman that he is, he did so. The show had two high spots and the rest was far inferior tow aht other. less physically attractive dancers could have done. Miles and I went out and discussed it for 4 hours. I treid my best to explain that being beautiful was not enough, these girls had to have dance talent as well, or be used in better capacities regarding what they are bringing to the stage. For the most part, they still do not represent anything called belly dance in my eyes and yes, i do resent that. Beauty and talent can come in the same package. no one is mad because anyone else is beautiful. We are mad because of the lack of talent being put out for the general public as representative of the dance.
I believe that one of the first rules of thumb in going on stage is to NEVER underestimate the intelligence of one's audience. I step onto the stage with the assumption that everyone there knows more than I do about what I am presenting, and then giving them the show that this assumption warrants. In the time I have been dancing, I have recognized that the audience sees much, much more than their (in theory) limited education might lead us to think. that is why, as a fat old broad of 56 years, I can still get up and dance, and have the crowd truly appreciate what I am presenting. they see the dept there. Believe me, it is not because I am young and beautiful. I fall into neither of those categories any more, but I am a dancer down to the DNA level, and they get that.
Secondly, I agree that in having these conversations, name calling and calling one's character into question is never justified. Whether the person in question is an idiot or a genius has no bearing on what they are doing on the stage. If they are a selfish, narrow minded idiot and they present a great show, then they have still done their job. If they are a genius with a beautiful spirit and they present drek as dance, they are still not doing their job. Calling one's actions into question on the other hand, is necessary. And it is often necessary to do that publicly on forums, etc, because if one eye is opened because of justified criticism, then perhaps it will eventually make a difference. But, I believe we should criticize the action and not who the person is.
Regards,
A'isha

Dear Liz,
I seem to have missed the part where someone thought you were American..... I know I sometimes use it when I mean "western", but I try to keep in mind that most forums are international these days.
Regards,
A'isha

"There are women in every generation made in the fluttery eyelash- super-girly mode. Some women are brought up to believe they have to seduce every male they meet just as you get men who can't keep their zips up. "

What a great phrase :)
so true!

And I trully respect what you said on not abusing the girl - very sensitive of you. True that especially nervosity can sometiems get the best of everyone (almost), and especially young girls tend to fall into those stupid stereotypes when very nervous.
being on national TV in front of this huge audience IS much for someone in their early 20ies I guess, so you're definitely right on not judging her too quickly.

Hi Liz,

I didn't relise that the acts were not allowed to choose the music they dance too, seems odd to me, if they want to get the best possible performance, wouldn't it be better to let the act choose their own?
There is definately something dodgey with that!

As for me thinking you were American, i think it was the comment that you made along the lines of..."a GP belly dancer wouldn't know a good belly dancer if she jumped up and slapped her in the face" that made me wrongly assume you were American as i've heard comments like that from American Dancer's before, putting down the British Belly Dance scene.
And before there is backlash from the other side of the pond, sorry to the American ladies, i know your not all of that opinion.

There are some, very good GP dancers as you'll be aware as you have been dancing so long, but obviously our scene is no where near as big as in some countries, so i just thought your comment would not have been made by a fellow GP dancer, i should have looked at your profile before comming to that assumption, so apologies there!

As for the Julia thing, i guess we will have to agree to disagree on some aspects here, i think maybe i expect a little too much, when i see a professional dancer, because i have seen dancers that have really inspired me (and yes quite a few that ive thought OMG what are you doing here), even a beautiful dancer (Becky) who had only started classes at the same time as me, yet was an absolute natural, and danced better than most who had been on the scene for years that i set a high bar when i see someone appear on T.V
As i've said before i also set a high bar for myself, i wouldn't even dream of performing on a professional basis untill i've been trainning for at least 3 years ( another year to go), and even then i would have to be absolutely sure that i was good enough, and i'm honest enough with myself to prolong my trainning, or not go into the professional scene if i'm not.


Just picky?, and a tad bitchy but honest in what i think, yes it does get me into trouble, and i understand the way i put my opinion across on Julia was horrible, but hey we live and learn.

As for the finals of BGT talent, i left that indoors and went to something much better, a live show at the Anvil, "Rocking on Heavens Door", i couldn't really critisize the dancing and singing because A. i cannot sing for toffee, and B. i cannot rock, and roll, but boy it was fun all the same.
The guys playing Buddy, and Roy Orbison were very good!

I think the next time i watch a BGT show again, the minute someone comes out saying their a belly dancer, well the best thing for me would be to turn the T.V off, what i don't see cannot grate me! :)