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www.commondreams.org/view/2009/09/29
<But no one anticipates a consumption transition. People breed less as they become richer, but they don't consume less - they consume more. As the habits of the super-rich show, there are no limits to human extravagance. Consumption can be expected to rise with economic growth until the biosphere hits the buffers. Anyone who understands this and still considers that population, not consumption, is the big issue is, in Lovelock's words, "hiding from the truth". It is the worst kind of paternalism, blaming the poor for the excesses of the rich.>
<But no one anticipates a consumption transition. People breed less as they become richer, but they don't consume less - they consume more. As the habits of the super-rich show, there are no limits to human extravagance. Consumption can be expected to rise with economic growth until the biosphere hits the buffers. Anyone who understands this and still considers that population, not consumption, is the big issue is, in Lovelock's words, "hiding from the truth". It is the worst kind of paternalism, blaming the poor for the excesses of the rich.>
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Re: population v consumption growth
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 8:49 AMI agree that population isn't the cause of over-consumption, but I still think it's a problem. I'd elaborate, but it's too early in the morning to get all of the parents thinking I'm a jerk <lol>. -
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Unsu...
Re: population v consumption growth
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 1:21 PMYah, Im actually curious myself. I know that this is not possible but....
If the United States just stopped breeding for 5 years straight....would we be any better off? I would like to think so but I have a feeling as I see more and more, that it wont make much of a difference. -
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Re: population v consumption growth
Wed, September 30, 2009 - 5:08 PMOh there'd be a difference, all right.
Our entire economic model hinges on the absurd necessity for the population to expand *constantly* and *forever*. Less young people at any point along the timeine in the middle class consumer-suck-bracket = economic havoc and widespread privation and duress, worldwide.
Exhibit A: [gestures to the Outside World]
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Re: population v consumption growth
Mon, October 5, 2009 - 11:49 PMwell i think his argument isn't necessarily that population growth isn't a problem. seems to me he's arguing that the rich and elite frame the issue around the poor and how many babies they have, which supposedly means they're using up more resources than anybody else. there's a hypocrisy there because, in reality, consumption increases with wealth. it sounds obvious but the author doesn't seem to think it's common knowledge. -
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Re: population v consumption growth
Tue, October 6, 2009 - 10:50 AMYou're right. And yes, I agree. But he's not giving people much credit if he thinks that we don't get the consumerism/money connection. I mean, hell, the "system" rampantly ENCOURAGES people to procreate (where else do we get future consumers?), so of course the commerce machine wants more population growth. Apologies for the tangent. I have a lot of baggage around the breeding issue <lol>. -
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Unsu...
Re: population v consumption growth
Tue, October 6, 2009 - 10:55 AMDont worry, so do I. It seems even at my age (26), it is easier to HAVE a kid than it is to acquire the tools to PREVENT HAVING kids. -
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Re: population v consumption growth
Tue, October 6, 2009 - 11:04 AMSeriously. My hubby tried to get a vasectomy at 24 and they were NOT having it. It took us 2 years to find a urologist who would do it, since we didn't have kids and "might change your mind". Meh. That was 20 years ago, and nobody has changed their mind yet. -
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Unsu...
Re: population v consumption growth
Tue, October 6, 2009 - 11:52 AMYeah. Im working on getting a consultation next week. Hopefully Ill pass the "test" by answering the questions in a way that makes them not use that logic against me. I ..... wont..... change ..... my mind. Trust me, I wont. Every time I go to Walmart, there will be a reminder waiting for me. -
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Re: population v consumption growth
Tue, October 6, 2009 - 2:23 PMMy cure for that is to never go to Walmart <lol>. If I ever did, with my luck, I'd end up here somehow <g>: www.peopleofwalmart.com/
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Re: population v consumption growth
Tue, October 6, 2009 - 4:24 PMthe culture definitely encourages breeding but if a poor family has 4 or 5 kids, they are most likely going to have a bunch of hand-me-downs. having kids doesn't necessarily mean the kids and the family are going to become consumers. plus, you need to make money to spend money and the poor don't really have that luxury.
during the 90s credit bulge living within your means kind of flew out the window. that just gets you right back to the fat cats and ceos. vicious cycle.
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