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saturn, karma and synastry

topic posted Wed, August 26, 2009 - 1:53 AM by  Unsubscribed
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I was wondering about karma and relationships. Many famous astrologers mention the karmic ties of saturn in synastry. One example of them is Martin Schulman. At least all astrologers claim that synastric saturn establishes firm bonds - although Liz Green argues that most saturn interaspects in synastry subconsciously repel rather than attract.

My question is:
1) what are your thoughts about this?
2) Have you ever experienced strong karmic ties involving saturn interaspects?

My personal saturn is opposite the sun / pluto conjunction of both my parents. It is fairly obvious I have karmic ties with both of them.
My personal feeling about this is that I oftentimes have wished I could have divorced my parents. I guess our relationship would have been a lot better then - without them claiming all their parental claims. Then it would have been my ex-parents. Maybe we could have been friends.

Anyway, what about you?
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  • Re: saturn, karma and synastry

    Sun, October 18, 2009 - 1:27 PM
    I've seen saturn-sun aspects creates a sense of responsibility as well as an impression that one has to help the other 'grow up' (which can be both constructive and stiffling, of course); me and my current husband have sun-saturn interaspects (my saturn opposing his sun, his saturn conjunct my sun); we also have a stellium in the 10th in our composite chart. Our relationship has been full of hindrances, but it also felt like some sort of 'complusion'. It's strange though to find that precisely in your synastry with your parents (my guess is that saturn in general reflects and encourages this parent-child type of responsibility for the other's fate).
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: saturn, karma and synastry

      Sun, October 18, 2009 - 11:15 PM
      Vielen dank Ashley, I share about the same experiences with my current partner - my saturn conjunct his MC / venus, his saturn opposite my sun. The compulsion is definitely there, and also the hindrances.
      As for my parents, I oftentimes felt I had to teach them, take care of them... especially when I was a child. I sensed their pain and wanted to heal them - but I missed the tools. It was a heavy burden then, because my brains were still incapable of "helping" them the way I wanted to, leaving me with a powerless feeling of inadequacy. Looking back on it now, I suppose my parents merely used me in their never ending power struggles and other drama's. I mean, two cancers with both sun conjunct pluto, what else can you expect, LOL.
      • Re: saturn, karma and synastry

        Mon, October 19, 2009 - 3:02 PM
        That's a feeling I also had when I was a child, but somehow feared to consciously accept until I grew up (the power struggle part ... it's just that I guess they weren't even aware of it). What planets have aspects with your sun and moon, Unsub? What exactly made you 'sense their pain'?
        They say sun-saturn aspects in synastry are good (lasting and deep connection). Now it also depends on other aspects, of course, it's not a guarantee in itself.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: saturn, karma and synastry

          Mon, October 19, 2009 - 11:27 PM
          I suppose I have a 6th sense for pain, traumas and wounds. I guess it comes from my south node conjunct mars in pisces, chiron in pisces and a prominent neptune & pluto. Pluto provides the in-depth insights into the pain underneath any behaviour.
          My moon is aspected by pluto (30° exact), sun only by uranus & saturn. Moon is also aspected by venus & chiron and forms a grand cross with mars, jupiter & lilith.
          I'm sure my parents had no idea what effects their power games had upon me. Especially my mother tried to mold me until there was nothing left of me - she didn't completely succeed though - and I spend the rest of my life trying to overcome that. By now I've learned this is a common experience for nearly anyone who has a pluto moon aspect. I learned that on the pluto moon tribe.
          • Re: saturn, karma and synastry

            Tue, October 20, 2009 - 9:39 AM
            So pluto aspecting the moon also reflecting power struggles with the mother..
            I can sense people's feelings, but I don't actually 'feel what they feel' (which would peobably be the hallmark of Neptune ..), as I've heard some people saying. I am just very aware of whatever they may feel (actually whatever may lie in their irrational); it's rather a matter of being attuned to specific vibrations. Could you say Pluto somehow translates what Neptune helps you perceive or you experience them as 2 distinct types of energy?
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: saturn, karma and synastry

              Tue, October 20, 2009 - 11:34 AM
              a pluto moon aspect is usually a strong indication for a mother who wants to have a symbiotic relationship with her child. The child either agrees and becomes inseparable from the mother until one of them dies, or the child does not feel comfortable in such an arrangement and tries to break free. In that case, the mother usually does not give up and refuses to allow the child a separate individuality. Usually this marks the beginning of a power struggle with no end. I experienced the latter; some people have a mixture in various degrees. For example they have periods of symbiosis and periods when they want to break free at all costs. The least you can say is that there is a strong bond - but not always a positive one ;-)

              I'm not sure if I can feel what other people feel. I never tested that. I'm not even sure if I would WANT to feel what other people feel, LOL. I guess I am more or less what you describe about yourself: being attuned to specific vibrations. I simply call it "being sensitive". And now that I've come to think about it, I suppose I am focussed on pain and trauma's (and how people have found ways to live with their pain & trauma's).
              Pluto gives me the ability "to see right through". Neptune is about sensing vibrations. Pluto is not really translating. He's merely adding. He's like wearing the right pair of glasses when your eyes are all blurry. And let's face it, neptune is hardly more than a fog...
              • Re: saturn, karma and synastry

                Tue, October 20, 2009 - 2:28 PM
                I don't know much about the way Neptune manifests or is experienced - I know Pisceans generally claim to feel other people's pain and to absorb the emotions that may float in their environment. I don't absorb anything, I just sense it and I know where it comes from, what caused it, what it can lead to, etc. (I guess that has to do with Pluto). Is it true? Can people with strong Neptune take in other people's feelings?
              • Re: saturn, karma and synastry

                Tue, October 20, 2009 - 2:31 PM
                Oh and they say Pluto is mediumsitic, while Neptune is clairevoyant. Pluto has insight into other people's minds, while Neptune is atuned to some extrasensorial reality.
                BTW, Neptune aspects in synastry are generally bad? (fog, uncertainty, ambiguity, etc?)
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: saturn, karma and synastry

                  Wed, October 21, 2009 - 11:52 AM
                  Sorry ashley, I'm not an expert on pluto or neptune - or on all these different sorts of psychic abilities. So unfortunately I cannot provide you a sufficient answer to those questions. But personally I am not really a fan of neptune. I'm sure he is very inspiring for many artists, but if you have to earn a living in any other field, transits to and from neptune generally act as debilitating - at least that is my experience. Lately I noticed that every time transiting moon is at 7.35 anything (this is the degree of my neptune) I have a very hard time to stay awake and lucid. It literally feels as if my brains turn into a jelly pudding for about one hour - until moon has moved a bit further. That would be no problem if I had a day off, but if it happens during working hours, it usually is a big hindrance. And it happens every 2.5 days. Scheisse.

                  I like neptune conjuct the moon in synastry though - or in a composite chart. I experienced that many times in many ways and I never had bad experiences with it. Maybe because we always had many other meaningful aspects as well; it never was "just" neptune keeping us together.
                  But a composite neptune conjuct the ascendant is quite another story. It creates a magnetic attraction based on absolutely nothing. No real compatability, i mean. And I hate that, every time it happens. Because usually I'm the first one to "wake up" and see things a s they really are, while the other person is still high in the sky. Usually I only want to run as fast and far as my legs want to take me, once the fog has gone, leaving the other person all devastated. Terrible.
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                    Re: saturn, karma and synastry

                    Fri, October 23, 2009 - 9:49 AM
                    I'm not a fan of Neptune, either . But I wish I could have a clearer image of him. Have you had any important Neptune transits yet? I've had him squaring some of my personal planets at some point, but that coincided with some strong pluto aspects, so what happened then was more intricate. I would like to distinguish the influence of Neptune a little better . The only things I've noticed was a form of duality and dissipation of some borders. Since everything eventually led to some more growing up, I ignored Neptune. As for synastry .... I didn't find the Neptune aspects very beneficial.
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: saturn, karma and synastry

                      Fri, October 23, 2009 - 12:23 PM
                      I've had neptune square my sun about 4 years ago and the only good thing about it was that I started to meditate and study esoterics. Transiting pluto was in my 12th house then - which is encouraging meditation as well.
                      I've also had neptune conjunct my ascendant and that was sheer hell. During that transit I had a very narrow escape from schizofreny. My imagination was so strong that I could hardly find my way back to reality - which was extremely frightening most of the time.

                      I think neptune has a lot to do with the physical brains. I suspect neptune to have a direct influence on the way the physical brain is functioning. During hard transits my brains simply get paralysed. All I can do then is lay down and fall asleep.
                • Re: saturn, karma and synastry

                  Thu, November 5, 2009 - 3:03 AM
                  yes you're right about pluto being mediumistic and neptune clairvoyant/intuitive/dreamy but both these planets can become "perverted" depending on the soul evolution of any person. I know of people with Neptune/Jupiter on the ascendant for example who are dreamers and fantacists, occassionally they can see into other people's hearts and minds. Strong pluto however enables a person to probe beneath the superficial, enabling them to understand the motivations behind the actions and the apparent dramas and displays often enacted by the ego!
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    Re: saturn, karma and synastry

    Wed, November 4, 2009 - 10:22 PM
    Here are the Saturn aspects with my parents:

    My Saturn is square my mother's Mars and her Saturn doesn't aspect my chart at all. That explains a lot... I tend to restrict her, when I was little it was by being a handful, and now that I'm older it is generally so she doesn't overtax herself and I "force" her to relax once in a while (Virgo Mars, Sag Saturn).

    My Saturn is trine my father's Saturn/Chiron conjunction and his Venus/Mercury conjunction, in effect, it's a grand fire trine because his Saturn/Chiron is trine his Venus/Mercury. We both have retrograde Saturn. He's mostly been out of my life. There is a lack of meaningful expression between us... a sort of invisible barrier neither of us has the guts to cross. It's easy to have fun together without ever knowing who we are on the inside. We accept the fact that we don't keep in contact like we should, because we know we love each other and we're just lazy about it.

    Overall there are more "karmic" connections with my mother. My Neptune is conjunct her Venus, her Pluto is conjunct my IC, and our Venus and Mars placements are switched (Virgo and Capricorn). Sometimes I feel like I'm stuck with her, like I have to take care of her because she doesn't have anyone else.

    My first roommate, we had a Mars(his)/Saturn(mine) conjunction and both have Moons in Capricorn, his Moon conjunct my Cap Mars. His Sun/Merc were also conjunct my MC 10th house side. We got along great and loved living together. I think when dealing with Saturn as a karmic planet, you also have to take into account natal placements of personal planets. Together we felt very stable, and all the Cap made it easier instead of heavy. I introduced him to a woman he fell in love with and dated for a year, until everything went up in flames. Their placements made such an "easy" strong Saturn impossible.

    His Saturn (Sag) was trine her Sun/Jupiter/MC/NN conjunction (Aries), and her Saturn was conjunct his Uranus 0 degrees and sextile his Venus/Jupiter conjunction (Aquarius). Their composite had a stellium in Pisces, including a Sun/Moon conjunction, which was square composite Saturn. Aries and Aquarius stelliums natally.... worst combination ever for Saturn to be meddling in. Both ruled by planets who hate restriction for different reasons. Saturn for them was not a friend, even as a trine or sextile. Space and feeling too "bound together" was a point of friction until they totally resented each other.

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