Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

topic posted Fri, February 8, 2008 - 7:55 AM by 
From TechCrunch: www.techcrunch.com/2008/02/...nonymous/

A California court has found that trolls are protected by the first amendment and are entitled to anonymity. The ruling comes despite previous cases where trolls have been arrested (be it once they have been disclosed) and hearings in other courts.

The court reversed a previous decision that would have allowed Lisa Krinsky, COO of a Florida based drug service SFBC, to subpoena 10 anonymous Yahoo message board trolls, according to Ars Technica.

The 10 trolls posted on Yahoo message boards in 2005 with “scathing verbal attacks” including referring to the management team of SFBC as “a management consisting of boobs, losers and crooks,” and responding to Krinsky with comments such as “I will reciprocate felatoin with Lisa even though she has fat thighs, a fake medical degree, ‘queefs’ and has poor feminine hygiene.”

The court found that although the Internet is still bound by rules about libel, what was posted were not assertions of “actual fact” and not actionable under defamation law, therefore protected under the First Amendment, in sort of the same way parody is.
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  • Re: Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

    Fri, February 8, 2008 - 8:02 AM
    How odd, that the framers seemed to have had in mind protecting people's speech so that they *could* put their names to their opinions.

    I am really mystified over how the power the First Amendment, which was ostensibly meant to protect people's political voices, has been so broadly applied in social settings instead.
    • Re: Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

      Fri, February 8, 2008 - 8:05 AM
      Let me rephrase that:

      What I mean to say is, I am really mystified over the power the First Amendment, which was ostensibly established to protect political speech, has taken on in social settings instead.
      • Re: Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

        Fri, February 8, 2008 - 9:04 AM
        It is one ruling, it will eventually be overturned.

        any harassment is a violation of another's rights.

        the internet is still a baby and evolving...these security issues will be resolved over time.

        trolls do not have any legal right to harass anyone, anywhere.

        courts supported slavery and segregation too....they were wrong.

        no citizen has the right to harm another...that is the basic tenet of law
        • Re: Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

          Fri, February 8, 2008 - 9:32 AM
          a little more on dee law

          basically this is an area of law that falls under the Ninth Amendment to the Constitution

          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nint...nstitution

          "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

          Which is just a long way of saying, you can not make an illegal law.

          You can not make a law which says that John Smith no longer has rights. If the legislature were to pass such a bill, it could, but it would then be challenged and overturned by the judiciary.

          Take a restaurant. If you go in and a customer-troll decides to throw crusts of bread at your head...he gets kicked out. Further, the management has to take every effort to personally intercede to protect your rights. That is the law. The management can't create a climate which furthers the violation of other's rights.

          So, the internet is a kind of public mall or forum. Just like you can't go to a physical mall and throw spitballs at people or insult them or follow them or harass them, so it is the same in a cyber mall. Why? Because people retain the same basic rights to privacy and to non-interference in their affairs.

          And this not only goes for personal trolls, but institutional ones as well. The fascist wing of the government can claim national security interests force them to monitor people, but it is a false claim. It is a clear violation of the Constitution and all these activities are strictly prohibited by law. The only people one can monitor are those committing crimes. You can't monitor an innocent person.

          Why does a law get passed that is illegal? Well, if Yahoo had to provide enough security to ensure the rights of people, it would shut down.
          It could not maintain its sites and staff them properly to retain order.

          Now, in a perverse society, which puts money ahead of morality, we surrender and go, "ok, I guess we have to live with it." In a moral society, in the society envisioned by James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and the guys....morality must lead and guide society and money conform to it, not the other way around. Which means that, under that which constitutes America, Yahoo and the entire internet must conform its behavior to provide for the protections of individual rights. If that means the entire internet is overturned, then the entire internet should be overturned. This thing has only been around since the 90's. We are not slaves to it. Either it serves our Constitution, or its present form goes.

          I absolutely believe the entire internet must conform to the same civility standards that would exist in a restaurant or in a mall...where you can't follow someone around and yell "hey a&&hole" at them, whenever you want. Or, the subtler forms of "hey a&&hole." It goes to intent. If someone has the intent to harass, annoy and interfere with other people, they are committing a crime. Period.

          Folks can either come on board the ship of morality....or drive off the cliff of "me first, you can go to sc$ew."

          Now we have an entire generation being raised in the culture of the five year olds who throw spitballs. Not good for any of us. Those kids are not going to stop with that, many of them will lie and cheat and steal their way through life. Not a good prospect for the future. This stuff is no longer a joke, it needs to reigned in.

          I think there have already been a bunch of suicides from kids being bullied online. How many do we need before we say enough is enough? Wrong is wrong.



          • Re: Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

            Sun, February 10, 2008 - 10:12 AM
            Another problem is that it is highly likely that someone on the Internet does not live in the same country so do not abide by the same laws.
            Remember the US constitution only applies to a small segment of the world population.

            Anyway I seem to remember Bush signing a few laws that ignore the constitution!
            A quick Internet search:
            Feb 2008 www.huffingtonpost.com/willia...77.html
            May 2006 www.americanprogress.org/issue...5.html
            and nobody seems to do anything about it.
            • Re: Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

              Mon, February 11, 2008 - 7:28 AM
              yeah, the international aspect does create complications...

              but we restrict products and services here. If some other country produces something that is not up to our standards, we find ways to block its entry into the US

              we can do the same for electronic information.

              It is only a matter of the will to do it.
              • Re: Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

                Thu, February 14, 2008 - 5:42 PM
                Restricting people from accessing sites internationally!
                They do that in China and nobody (except the Chinese government) thinks that's right.
                I also don't think US law is the best yard stick either.
                • Re: Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

                  Fri, February 15, 2008 - 4:29 AM
                  freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are not absolute rights. If they conflict with other rights, they can be restricted.

                  So, if a Russian porn site wants to bomb the US with images that children can easily access, that site can, absolutely, under the Constitution, be banned.

                  The only real guarantee of free speech in the Constitution is political free speech. Political free speech can not be limited in order to serve some agenda.

                  Pornography can be limited. There is no absolute protection not only for pornography, but even for artistic expression. If the artistic expression has political content, it is protected. But art for art's sake is not an absolutely protected right.

                  Generally, the laws are leaning in that direction. The founding of the country did not address the artistic issue, so it is left up to interpretation.

                  I don't know the most recent decisions, but I do remember a Supreme Court ruling from the 70's - which basically said that in order for something to be protected, it has to have some basic value to society.

                  So, for example, a sex scene, graphically depicting the horrors of rape, in the context of a movie about women's rights...becomes protected. A sex scene just for the purposes of sexuality itself, is not a protected right. Some people may fight for it, but it is not protected.

                  Why does the pornographer have more rights than the mother of an 8 year old or the 8 year old?

                  Society has a right to protect the mother and the 8 year old. The pornographer's rights are not absolute...any more than someone on the street has the right to walk around naked, just because they want to.

                  Freedom is not the freedom to do what one wants. Freedom comes from seeking truth. And truth is compassionate and self-sacrificing to the needs of others. Otherwise it is not really freedom, just a kind of selfish myopia.

                  Alexander the Great met an Indian Yogi shortly before he died.

                  The Yogi said to him, "Do not do what you want, they you may do as you please."
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    The only real guarantee of free speech in the Constitution is political free speech. Political free speech can not be limited in order to serve some agenda.

                    I disagree Jon, If you have not turned on your television in the last 8 years you would not see it. But the current Shrub has done exactly as you say is protected. HE has silenced any and all dissenting opinions to his presidency. He routinely scans crowd memberships to removed any anticipated harrassment or political dissenters speach during his speaches. Is this not a violation of this specific right as you quote it?
  • Dal
    Dal
    offline 0

    Re: Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

    Fri, February 8, 2008 - 12:06 PM
    I was expecting this one. It is not to be an outy hole for purposes of self-contempt. About the only thing that peeves me is when people don't leave the activity on the screen.
    • Re: Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

      Sun, February 10, 2008 - 7:10 AM
      many problems...

      one is that not everyone using the internet is a 25 year old out to joke and laugh with everyone.

      when you have a suicidally depressed and sick 65 year old lady on the internet, going there to get some support from other sick people...and some 25 year old idiot decides to harass her, he could ruin her life.

      And that stuff has got to end...and it has to end yesterday...
      • Re: Court Finds That Trolls Can Remain Anonymous

        Tue, February 19, 2008 - 1:13 PM
        >when you have a suicidally depressed and sick 65 year old lady on the internet, going there to get some support from other sick people...and some 25 year old idiot decides to harass her, he could ruin her life.<

        this seems to disregard a basic tenet of modern media culture: be responsible for yourself. in such a case as this, if you're getting flamed, quit feeding the trolls.

        it's pretty elegant and doesn't require Big Brother to intervene. doesn't this leave the most people the most free?

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