Hi,
I have been bellydancing for about a year. I took lessons and was asked to join a troupe. As far as the lessons we just learned the basics and as a troupe member we learned structured choregraphy to the teachers choice of music. What I want to learn, is how to piece all that I have learned together as improv. When I dance at home, I find myself just doing figure 8's. So, as experienced teachers and dancers, what should I be doing to 1st get over the fear of improv, and force myself to piece together the moves smoothly so I look like I know what I am doing? I asked the instructor to add a few minutes of free dance to the class and she didnt think that was a good idea. Any and all suggestions are welcome.
I have been bellydancing for about a year. I took lessons and was asked to join a troupe. As far as the lessons we just learned the basics and as a troupe member we learned structured choregraphy to the teachers choice of music. What I want to learn, is how to piece all that I have learned together as improv. When I dance at home, I find myself just doing figure 8's. So, as experienced teachers and dancers, what should I be doing to 1st get over the fear of improv, and force myself to piece together the moves smoothly so I look like I know what I am doing? I asked the instructor to add a few minutes of free dance to the class and she didnt think that was a good idea. Any and all suggestions are welcome.
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 9:08 AMIs it possible to find another instructor who is comfortable teaching improv? I'm not saying your current teacher is doing anything wrong or that you should leave her. It's just that some people are stronger teaching in some areas than others.
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 1:13 PMImprov is a very difficult thing to teach because it is a personal interpretation of the music. My suggestion for learning to improv is to choose music that moves you and then dance to it.
* You mention that when you do that you end up repeating a single move a lot. To prevent that, make a list of 3-5 moves you want to use and then use that list while you dance. It won't feel natural at first, but it will keep you in the mindset of using different moves.
* Another good challenge is to restrict what you can do to a piece of music. Examples:
* Take a 1-2 minute piece of music and only use upper body and arms movements, then do the same for only lower body movements.
* Take a 1-2 minute piece and do only circles...in any direction and with any part of your body. Do the same thing with slides.
* Try writing a mini choreography. Listen to the music and try to imagine what moves would go well. Write down a few combinations and try them out to the music.
Good luck! Improv can be daunting at first, but it is very rewarding to be able to just let go and dance once you are comfortable with it :)
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 1:15 PMForgot this one :)
* Watch a lot of dancing! The more you watch, the more your brain will be absorbing the patterns and movements associated with them. Youtube is a great place to watch if you are just starting out and can't see a lot of dancers in person.
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 4:47 PMBut that's exactly the sort of knowledge a teacher can provide. I understand what you mean about not being able to teach improv. Ultimately it is up to the dancer to interpret the music. But I really do think there are improv skills -- such as those you listed -- that can be imparted by a skilled teacher. Plus, the teacher can critique the student's performance and tell her what movements and combinations look good on her. -
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 5:03 PMThank you all for your imput. I do watch a lot of you tube, and I feel I do "absorb" a lot. and I like the idea about the 1-3 different moves make a lot of sense. You guys rock--Thanks -
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 6:53 PMI third the idea of finding an instructor (in addition to, not instead of your current one) that teaches improv. You will learn phrasing, timing, what moves go with what rhythm, and how to follow (and think) on the fly. I started taking lessons from a teacher who does mostly improv type of teaching although we do learn choreographies as well and I have to say, my ability to dissect what is really going on in a piece of music as well as my ability to discern what the dancer is doing in response to it has gone up immensely.
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 2:06 PMAnother thing you might try is to just CLOSE YOUR EYES- start dancing and be nonjudgemental towards yourself.. you might not stay all "bellydance" moves necessarily but that's ok. If you start off just having fun to the music you will be surprised how many moves start coming back to you and effortlessly intigrate themselves into your dancing. This is much more effective than starting off with the idea "I'm going to do a bellydance improv". Your body knows the moves and probably many combinations by memory already, once you free up your mind and body you will be capable of using those moves more effectively and relevantly cuz you're actually listening to the music
Eventually you will find it difficult to NOT bellydance when you hear any kind of music. I just went to a wedding where two people came up to later in the evening and told me "you dance just like a bellydancer" hmmmm
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Wed, January 31, 2007 - 8:11 PMI teach bellydance and I just did some improv exercises with my intermediate students tonight. Heres what we did. I directed each dancer to improvise to a few measures of music (about 40 seconds). As each student took there turn the first time through, I simply watched to see how they interpreted the music. When they were done I gave them each feedback on there timing with the music and whether or not the movements reflected the music. Some students did great while others needed some help with understanding musical phrases and the importance of changing moves with each new phrase, in mindfullness of the instrumentation. The second time the class did the exercise, the students were instructed to change there move with each phrase so that it was noticebly different than the previous move and to only change a move in time with the music , such as preparing at the end of a phrase and moving into a new move at the begininng of the new phrase.
These are definately intermediate level skill building techniques but they are principles that every Professional performer utilizes that and every teacher really should be aware of.
Improv. is a hugely important skill to cultivate as it is used FREQUENTLY in bellydance. The sponteneity of improv is a big contributing factor in the overall charm of bellydance. I teach both improv techniques and choreographed combinations in almost every class -even beginners. In advanced levels, there comes a time when the improvisational dancer can learn to make her dance look complety choreograhed because she knows the 'guidlines' to work within so to speak, as far as understanding musical phrasing, timing, instrumentation & having a movement reproioire to go with various instruments, drum rhythms & musical feelings. All of this coupled with a good working knoweledge of stage space utilazion is what a dancers needs in order to perform spectacular improvisational dances. Some dancers only dance to the basic drum beat of a song but the more sophisicated in skill always dance to the music in FULL. Paying attention to the drum line and the melody as well as the subtle nuances that tie it all together. -
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Thu, February 1, 2007 - 6:27 AMOf course, improvisation is a form of choreography. It's choreography on the fly.
And I do pretty similar improv exercises with my intermediate students. Only we don't start dancing. We start simply by listening to the music and feeling how it pulls or compells us to move, but not moving yet. I've found that students new to improv are so worried about "what do I do next?" that they often don't hear the music at all at first. -
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Sat, February 3, 2007 - 11:05 AMYes, I agree that knowing the music you are improving to is a must. When you know the piece of music you are improving to, then you can anticipate changes and change your dance steps/moves ect accordingly.
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Sun, February 4, 2007 - 9:35 AMAfter a considerable amount of experience, it is possible for dancers to improv to music they've never heard before, I think. But -- yes -- the dance will almost always look more polished if you're familiar with the music.
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Wed, January 31, 2007 - 6:33 AMtribes.tribe.net/bellydanc...d0319affef
Further toward the bottom in the above referenced discussion on the belly dance drills tribe
is a lot of really good information on learning improv.
From what Samira pointed out, it is actually a "learned" skill.
Not just "dancing to the music".
:) -
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Thu, February 1, 2007 - 7:45 AMWow, more great info. I truly appreciate ya'all's input. Its all good. I do find myself bellydancing to "regular" music then freeze when its actually middle eastern stuff. And listening to the music first make sense. I will t ry it all. Once again a huge
THANK YOU ! -
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Thu, February 1, 2007 - 9:28 AMI would also add a caution to "start small". Start with a short song to improv to, and then build the song length as you build improv stength. This way, you initially only have to fill a 3 minute song, instead of a 5 minutes song. (And those 2 extra minutes can seem like an enternity if you don't know what to do!)
Good luck! -
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Thu, February 1, 2007 - 11:11 AMZafira,
Thanks so much for posting that link. I knew I had written it down somewhere and just didn't have time to search for the link. :)
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Fri, February 2, 2007 - 1:54 PMI was taught to take 3 or 4 moves. Put on some music and do those three moves randomly. Change to the music, change to the rythem, change the order, until you feel comfortable just doing those moves and changeing. Then try some other moves. Remember to keep your baladi moves with baladi music, keep your chiftitelli moves with the chiftitelli music, etc. -
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Fri, February 2, 2007 - 7:21 PMOh Lordy, there are certain moves for certain music....I have so much to learn.
Thanks again all these suggestions are wonderful -
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Sun, February 11, 2007 - 5:12 PMHave you ever viewed the instructional dvd 'The heartbeat of bellydance" starring Jenna?
There are introductions to popular middle eastern drum rhythms - identifying which rhythm you are hearing and suggestions for moves to improvise to specific rhythms.
Certain moves were designed for certain rhythms like head tosses to the Zar or the Khalegee...
anyhow that dvd breaks it down very user friendly and is a good value because there is so much information on that one dvd (three full choreographies/rhythm identification/improv workshop/shimmy drills/performance in a live setting of an improvised drum solo) -well done dvd and I got mine for $6.99 at Ross - you could probably find similar deal on Amazon.com I imagine or good ol' Ebay
another dvd to try would be Sonia's drum solo instructional dvd which helps with identification of rhythms but not so much on improvising- it teaches you one specific choreography but it is still good to know certain combinations that work well with a specific rhythm so when you hear the rhythm you know you have something to fall back on that is comfortable to do
just thought these might help you out
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Fri, February 9, 2007 - 2:47 PMHi, Oriana! Artemis Mourat has a fun and helpful improv "poem" that she teaches in workshops which is a great way to approach improvisation. You might try to contact her, I believe her website is www.serpentine.org
I think working with combinations is very useful when trying to improv. Jillina's instructional videos 1-3 (marketed by Bellydance Superstars) are really helpful in this way, because first teaches combinations and then shows how to use them in a choreography, modifying them when necessary.
The best advice, practice practice practice. (I need to take my own advice.) The more you move, the more comfortable you are with that movement, and the music makes more sense to your body. Does that sound weird?
Also, listen to your body. Maybe those figure 8's are your body trying to recognize its desired healing. Maybe your Kundalini is starting to stir as a result of discovering this magical dance. :)
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Tue, February 13, 2007 - 11:07 PMI am more of an improv dancer -- I think comfort and practice is the key.
I do also teach this to my students so I also suggest taking from more than one person and find someone that is more of an improv style. This way - you have one teacher continually teaching you routines (which help you in coming up with combos and transistions to use in improv) and also someone who gets you comfortable with improv.
I teach my students by putting on various songs and working through ideas -- talking them through how to 'plan' an improv dance. This does not mean know what you are going to do but concepts to make the dance clean like - repetition, changes in music, using your zills, combinations to reuse, etc. Then I basically encourage them to do with freestyle dancing but they are suppose to be thinking through what they are doing not just dancing around -- listening to the music and intentionally picking moves. I also teach a dancing to live music workshop with zills -- working with a live drummer -- this helps a lot because then they learn how to anticipate where the music may go if they have never heard it before. So really - it is just practice practice -- and look in the mirror. Keep in mind the concepts that you learn from routines -- do not look too busy, repetition, accent the music, etc.
I also do some games where we build a dance together - on the spot. This allows them to hear what others would do --- so they do not feel they just do their own favorite moves over and over....
One more idea -- sit down one day and list out a number of moves. May be do not put down the moves you know you will use. Put on some music and try to use all the moves on the lists....stick to a limited number so that you do not look busy. This is one way to remind yourself of all the other moves you have available for dancing and force yourself to use them.
good luck! improv is really fun to me.... -
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Tue, February 13, 2007 - 11:08 PMOne more note....start videoing yourself doing improv and review it....this will really help make it clean. -
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Wed, February 14, 2007 - 7:39 PMMore awesome suggestions. thanks again to all this is very helpful.
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Sat, June 2, 2007 - 3:08 PMI know this is an old thread...but I am fairly new and have been reading through all these great discussions!
I wanted to share an exercise with you that a workshop instructor once had us do in class. She asked us to pick one broad movement...just one thing...say, Figure Eights. She turned on a 2 minute peice of music and told us to dance to it using just that one move, but switching the way we performed that movement. In otherwards...a flat hip figure eight could be done in place, while turning, while stepping to the side, while bending the knees lower, while rising....you could do a tiny loop on one side, then do a huge loop on the other side. Change the speed, change the level. She told us to pick three of these moves in advance of a freestyle. Use them as your fall back movements, and use the fluctuations of each movement to give your brain time to catch up to the music and decide on your next plan of action. It's really a fun exercise and very challenging when you are forced to really think about it!
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Re: A question from a student on improv
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 8:58 AMImprov is mostly muscle memory actually, its being able to dance and your body does different movements from muscle memory. It much easier improv-ing with moves that are drilled over and over, when they are new moves and you have to count them out it is much harder to improv with it.
That is why ATS / ITS training is so great for improv dancing. You drill moves over and over and learn to make your body react by just a simple que. There is no time to think out a move when improving with cues your body just instantly connects the cue and the body reacts.
I say drill a few moves over and over and over on a continuous basis and then they will just come out on instinct when dancing to music.
A great training in improv also is restaurant performance. If you have an opportunity to dance at restaurants definately take it. It may be awkward at first, but it gets easier. And you have to remember it may feel like your doing the same move over and over, but to the audiance alot of times, they cant even tell.
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