the following is an interview conducted during the Root Festival this summer between Finisia Medrano (Trannie-Grannie) & Luna Spiral Heart.
This incense we’re burning.
It was a way. Today we have the flick bick lighter.
I’m lighting incense with an instrument of fire.
Yet the incense itself came from an old way.
Maintaining the fire.
They would roll take the dung and make it smell nice.
Someone who would carry the hearth of the people.
Someone who carried that medicine, would have these incense these punks
Native American would have sages, you know bundles. And the sage
Bundles would burn and you could keep a coal fire alive similar to these
Punks.
It was the same answer and it was the same problem. One was only denser
Than the other. The dung punks were that same response to that idea just denser
People have inherited a world where they have incense, but they didn’t inherit the idea.
What was that the incense was created for a way of fire so we could have our
Hearth everywhere we went, because we didn’t have click bic lighters
And fire wasn’t cheap.
Same with the sage bundles.
And someone with a horn, or a sacred skull maybe and in it sage bundles smoldering, and that person tending them nursing that coal from one burning incense to the other… nursing those coals… putting them among other incense when you get some lit, so you can put it down into a tube and have it nourish and hold this fire in a bundle of sticks. And these bundles of sticks they set with the incense too, and you would burn it like that, just like you would the sage, and you have fire
How South relates to Fire?
You replace all these truths in a material culture, all these truths are lost in a flood of material culture. And you have symbols of that truth to back them up, one of those things was how it was to be a human being on the earth, and what was the medicine wheel was, why it was potlatches, round dances, and ghost dances or a naraya was there, this root festival. It was because it was the way the people lived. To give back to the thing that gave them life. People understood and were symbiotic to the elements they were living in. There was some bundle that was Camas Girl, but Camas Girl might be an old lady. But Camas girl knows all about the Camas. And so we had bundles like that, and they could be symbiotic with the plants and mother cause they knew how. It was like, when you go to build a willow lodge, if you want to give back something more than Tobacco offering, you would take that willow, the tops of those willows, and you would stick it back in the mud, you would be planting back willows to grow, where to took willows for your lodge. So that the circle was complete, and you gave back to the thing that gave to you. You gave it life again. You didn’t take it’s life. You took those willow tops you stuck them back in the mud, and you know what? Many of those willows would grow, because that’s what willows do. And to help that thing complete it’s cycle would be to know it’s way. To be symbiotic with it. Not just to take it, but to take and give it life at the same time. That whole idea was lost when people began to put down a little tobacco. They understood the principle, but didn’t know the truth of how it really interacted and give tobacco when they’re cutting willows instead of planting back the willow tops.
How did that shift happen?
In our world, it was when there was a great dying off. It happened 400 hundred years ago, maybe 500, but there was a disease that came through, and many of the people that knew the ways of different things, died, so the people that lived on the hoops were lost, because they couldn’t interact with their environment in a symbiotic instead they seen their interaction was creating trouble, and they couldn’t see why, and some of the was that people held these things in secret, instead of letting everyone have their blueprint. I don’t know what happened there, but it wasn’t good was it? We lost many of our bundles.
The disease came with white (roman empire) culture?
Yes that was when their god came before them destroying their enemies.
There was a great dying off and it left the people in a bad way. People were finding themselves having difficulty interacting in a symbiotic way which gave life, and there was trouble. And so there was despair among the people after this great dying off.
There was maybe 9 of 10 people died, and the ones that were left were very young and didn’t know a lot. It was very hard cause it was a huge dying off, leaving only a tenth of the people on this continent that used to be here. Most of the ones that knew anything were gone. They say then that those mountains in the west began to puff smoke. All of them. Like a big pipe ceremony was going on. So the people came to see what the mountains were speaking of. They said that the earth had opened up there and that there were people that came from the earth, like Bigfoot, who said they came to give the people a medicine wheel. And that was what that root festival was, that was what the Naraya was , and the Potlatch was all about. It was that medicine wheel that these people gave to the people. And they said we should all meet together at the center of our hoops at a certain time of the year, so that those that had members of how to catch the salmon could bring salmon and show that way. And those who knew the roots could bring the roots and show that way. And those that knew how to do hides, and so on and so forth, and arrows, would come together in a great big giveaway and in our giving to another, all of us were provided for all that we had and we had the opportunity to share the knowledge of those ways and we could rebuild our way on our hoop again.
So the giving was of items from you to the hoop, but was also giving of the bundles to the tribes gathered
The knowledge of the way was how to create those bundles among the people again
And that was the process of which they were enjoined. That was the medicine wheel that these people had come together in , in order to come back to their way of life, which was to live in symbiotic within the environment and not to be parasitic in their life way.
And that was the medicine wheel?
That is the medicine wheel. That is the thing that Wavoka wanted us to come back to. That was his hope as a people we would see this, and come back to that tradition, coming back to this very thing directly, that if you were living in this symbiotic lifestyle then you were living in it. nothing else was that. Nothing else was living in that symbiotic lifestyle. But if you came back to that Naraya, if you came back to the medicine wheel. We were doing the medicine wheel when the guns and whiskey came. Now that the guns and whiskey have come, we must go back to the medicine wheel. In order to maintain this balance and sustain this permaculture which allowed the people to interact in a symbiotic way on the mother. When this permaculture in this final place on earth is destroyed, when this permaculture is gone, then humankind’s ability to be symbiotic in the environment goes with it. They’ve already done this damage all the way around the world. But for here, the earth mother becomes bread, still.
Can you speak more about the sustainable way of life that they lived?
It was in the root festival, it was in this round dance, it was in this Naraya that way was described, because it was in that way the people would come together, and they would eat they roots and these seeds and these things . And when they were there doing that they would bring those things that they could transplant with them. And they would spread it around this way, and they would share it with one another. And they planted it where it would grow. They would put the Camas in the sunny wet ground. They might dig up lots of sod and just stick Camas in and wild onions. Things like that. So they could bring it about one another. So people could have it on their hoops. And they shared them in this way. They both ate them and planted them back in this way. In these root festival and these round dances, ceremonially and really. Practically. That was what was done. And Wavoka said if we would enjoin that way and plant those things back and do those dances and return to our way of life that was symbiotic, then we could return the balance and that was what he hoped would happen.
Who was Wavoka?
Wavoka was a Paute man who came up at the last moments of any free Indian existence in America. It was he was the one that took the idea of the round dance, the very one which I’m talking to you of, that our life way is in this dance, let us begin to dance it.
That thought he took to the people at the very last moments, just at the beginning of the Reservation period for Indian in America.
And what were they doing prior than his vision? What had the rounddance become?
It has been forgotten having to survive against an onslaught of material people and warfare. And in that onslaught of people and material warfare, they were being swept away. And Wavoka said Hang on to this round dance, hang on to this way of planting back the roots that feed us on the land this way. Hang on to this interaction that is symbiotic to the mother. This is our round dance, this is our ghost dance. This is the returning of the balance. Remember the spirit of our ancestors in this way. Hang on to these ideas. Dance this dance, and eat these roots, and plant them back, and let the thing that feeds you be the thing you feed. Do it non linearly, just do it wherever you go. You don’t find rows of camas, people don’t find rows of biscuit root. They were everywhere. The people planted their trails back everywhere they walked. That was their dance, how they lived their lives everywhere they walked. Everything they took from the earth. They had on their side a bag, not of tobacco, but a bag of biscuits and seeds and this and that and seeds and of every little bit they took of, they planted a little bit of what would grow there. And they did it everywhere they went for everything they took. And for every exchange they made, they fed the mother back from that pouch. And that was their medicine pouch. That was their medicine. There was nothing “great” or “mysterious” or “mystical” thing. Not tobacco certainly. But tobacco represented something, and that was what it represented.
I’ve heard that the medicine wheel off balance is what’s creating the imbalance in the world.
I’m talking about how this related to our way of life, it wasn’t just feathers and beads and powwow.
So talk about Naraya. Today’s Round Dance
The naraya, the piumpsha, the round dance. These ideas need to be co-opted by this old idea. They need to remember where the dance came from. They need to replace the elements of their rituals that are not these roots and this interaction with these roots and this interaction. Make these things sacred again, and bring them back into their lives again, and teach their children these things again. This was the culture of the people there. And these things need to be taught these ways again. And the people become symbiotic with these sisters and have them in their lives again in a good way and give them life, and allow these sisters to give them life. Begin to make that exchange again, because in that way we can return to that life way and there’s the returning of the balance.
To talk about todays naraya or piumsha, or potlatch or any of these circle dances if you make it a mystical religion where by these prayers or dances and this pinch of tobacco is sufficient for your conscience in your interaction with the earth mother then your using the dance to excuse you from the work. That the interaction what was called for was required.
If your conscious could be cheap paid off for with a pinch of tobacco, a song and a dance. And didn’t require truly your interactions with these roots was to be symbiotic in any way, so you make prayers that the earth be renewed and may she be abundant and the only thing that stopping that from happening, the only thing that is standing in that process is you. And if you’re not willing to engage these things that would allow you to become symbiotic in this way then when you’re praying at these Narayas , or round dances or piumsha or potlatches of any kind ghost dances, for this renewal and you yourself are doing nothing to make this process happen, this is what Jesus said about people making prayers “that you get a ride” “god bless you” “I hope you stay warm”, but then don’t give any of those things you have in your possession that might have aided that process, and in so doing you condemn yourself in a way, cause you’re standing in the way of your prayer and if you’re praying for the earth to renew herself, and you’re the only thing standing in the way is you and your behavior and if you’re not willing to change it or become symbiotic in this way you’re praying for your own demise.
And how could you hate anybody like me or wavoka or anybody who would agree with you in your prayer.
And I don’t want to be preachy but I want to get this down. I think in modern times all kinds of examples. When they disbanded the tribe of the Klamath people, the muggleshoot people, or the chipmunk people of the lake, or however you describe those people. When they condemned their reservation and sold it to the Forest Service, and paid those people all 500,000 dollars, there was a man among them that would not take the money. He built a fire, and some friends helped him maintain that fire, I think it was some new age white ladies. And they stood with Edison Chiloquin, and helped him maintain his fire. And many of the people who received the money in the dissolution of their tribe felt badly about themselves maybe cause they didn’t like Edison Chiloquin, they talked bad about him sometimes they did. When he did not take the money like the rest of them, he stood under their condemnation, he stood 10 years or more with that fire burning, and finally the government honored Edison Chiloquin by giving him this piece of land because he didn’t not want to take money but have tribal land help in perpetuity. And not to let this thing go away. And he stood their and required that of the government, and finally the government relinquished and gave it to Chiloquin who was praised by the people, and they honored him in his life, and was like an Elder among them. I remember watching him a lot as I was coming through
And when he died, they heaped great honors to him at his death. And as I stood there looking at this reality, and I stood there among the people and I saw none of them that became him. In all the things that they did do, despising him, honoring him, appreciating him, loving him, whatever. None of them became him. And it’s like when you talk about Jesus saying this is how it is to be a son of God. And he goes away hoping to see you become a son of god. And instead you have a religion that is waiting for Jesus to save them. And here we are waiting for Jesus to save them, and I see Jesus waiting for them to become sons of God. And that’s what it is.
So this idea of spending time in this society that condemns itself in its own behavior. I don’t want to spend my time blowing on smoldering leaves or a potential movement of any kind. I see I want to go back to the living of this way in the sagebrush. I want to go back to that way of life. If I do anything other than that, That is something other than living in the sagebrush. If I stay in this town, or any town, and do these teachings or opening this idea to others minds, being a selfish savage that I am, those things keeping me from something else, which is living in this way. And when I go out there to dig my roots and live on this bounty of banquet, I don’t find any people out there. And I think of that work of just being out there interacting in a symbiotic way with these sisters that feed me, these wildflowers that feed me, is the work I need to be doing, and everything else is not that, but everything else is a part of that something else, and all of that something else is part of another way, but it’s not this way I’m talking about. The way that might return a balance to the earth. If we were to return to this way of life again, go back to our medicine wheel, our round dance. If only we would dance this ghostdance in this way, embracing the truth, and go back to a way that was symbiotic, go back to our root festival. That was the hope, though, that prophecy and prayer, both of the Hopis and Wavokas. And so I would say the same thing. To not make nonsense out of truths with symbols, but understand the truths that were there, return to them, and restore balance. It would restore people on the mother who could be symbiotic and not be a parasite and that’s the difference this dance could make. That was what this round dance, this piumsha, this potlatch or this ghostdance, that’s what these things are really about. That was all I need to say about it.
This incense we’re burning.
It was a way. Today we have the flick bick lighter.
I’m lighting incense with an instrument of fire.
Yet the incense itself came from an old way.
Maintaining the fire.
They would roll take the dung and make it smell nice.
Someone who would carry the hearth of the people.
Someone who carried that medicine, would have these incense these punks
Native American would have sages, you know bundles. And the sage
Bundles would burn and you could keep a coal fire alive similar to these
Punks.
It was the same answer and it was the same problem. One was only denser
Than the other. The dung punks were that same response to that idea just denser
People have inherited a world where they have incense, but they didn’t inherit the idea.
What was that the incense was created for a way of fire so we could have our
Hearth everywhere we went, because we didn’t have click bic lighters
And fire wasn’t cheap.
Same with the sage bundles.
And someone with a horn, or a sacred skull maybe and in it sage bundles smoldering, and that person tending them nursing that coal from one burning incense to the other… nursing those coals… putting them among other incense when you get some lit, so you can put it down into a tube and have it nourish and hold this fire in a bundle of sticks. And these bundles of sticks they set with the incense too, and you would burn it like that, just like you would the sage, and you have fire
How South relates to Fire?
You replace all these truths in a material culture, all these truths are lost in a flood of material culture. And you have symbols of that truth to back them up, one of those things was how it was to be a human being on the earth, and what was the medicine wheel was, why it was potlatches, round dances, and ghost dances or a naraya was there, this root festival. It was because it was the way the people lived. To give back to the thing that gave them life. People understood and were symbiotic to the elements they were living in. There was some bundle that was Camas Girl, but Camas Girl might be an old lady. But Camas girl knows all about the Camas. And so we had bundles like that, and they could be symbiotic with the plants and mother cause they knew how. It was like, when you go to build a willow lodge, if you want to give back something more than Tobacco offering, you would take that willow, the tops of those willows, and you would stick it back in the mud, you would be planting back willows to grow, where to took willows for your lodge. So that the circle was complete, and you gave back to the thing that gave to you. You gave it life again. You didn’t take it’s life. You took those willow tops you stuck them back in the mud, and you know what? Many of those willows would grow, because that’s what willows do. And to help that thing complete it’s cycle would be to know it’s way. To be symbiotic with it. Not just to take it, but to take and give it life at the same time. That whole idea was lost when people began to put down a little tobacco. They understood the principle, but didn’t know the truth of how it really interacted and give tobacco when they’re cutting willows instead of planting back the willow tops.
How did that shift happen?
In our world, it was when there was a great dying off. It happened 400 hundred years ago, maybe 500, but there was a disease that came through, and many of the people that knew the ways of different things, died, so the people that lived on the hoops were lost, because they couldn’t interact with their environment in a symbiotic instead they seen their interaction was creating trouble, and they couldn’t see why, and some of the was that people held these things in secret, instead of letting everyone have their blueprint. I don’t know what happened there, but it wasn’t good was it? We lost many of our bundles.
The disease came with white (roman empire) culture?
Yes that was when their god came before them destroying their enemies.
There was a great dying off and it left the people in a bad way. People were finding themselves having difficulty interacting in a symbiotic way which gave life, and there was trouble. And so there was despair among the people after this great dying off.
There was maybe 9 of 10 people died, and the ones that were left were very young and didn’t know a lot. It was very hard cause it was a huge dying off, leaving only a tenth of the people on this continent that used to be here. Most of the ones that knew anything were gone. They say then that those mountains in the west began to puff smoke. All of them. Like a big pipe ceremony was going on. So the people came to see what the mountains were speaking of. They said that the earth had opened up there and that there were people that came from the earth, like Bigfoot, who said they came to give the people a medicine wheel. And that was what that root festival was, that was what the Naraya was , and the Potlatch was all about. It was that medicine wheel that these people gave to the people. And they said we should all meet together at the center of our hoops at a certain time of the year, so that those that had members of how to catch the salmon could bring salmon and show that way. And those who knew the roots could bring the roots and show that way. And those that knew how to do hides, and so on and so forth, and arrows, would come together in a great big giveaway and in our giving to another, all of us were provided for all that we had and we had the opportunity to share the knowledge of those ways and we could rebuild our way on our hoop again.
So the giving was of items from you to the hoop, but was also giving of the bundles to the tribes gathered
The knowledge of the way was how to create those bundles among the people again
And that was the process of which they were enjoined. That was the medicine wheel that these people had come together in , in order to come back to their way of life, which was to live in symbiotic within the environment and not to be parasitic in their life way.
And that was the medicine wheel?
That is the medicine wheel. That is the thing that Wavoka wanted us to come back to. That was his hope as a people we would see this, and come back to that tradition, coming back to this very thing directly, that if you were living in this symbiotic lifestyle then you were living in it. nothing else was that. Nothing else was living in that symbiotic lifestyle. But if you came back to that Naraya, if you came back to the medicine wheel. We were doing the medicine wheel when the guns and whiskey came. Now that the guns and whiskey have come, we must go back to the medicine wheel. In order to maintain this balance and sustain this permaculture which allowed the people to interact in a symbiotic way on the mother. When this permaculture in this final place on earth is destroyed, when this permaculture is gone, then humankind’s ability to be symbiotic in the environment goes with it. They’ve already done this damage all the way around the world. But for here, the earth mother becomes bread, still.
Can you speak more about the sustainable way of life that they lived?
It was in the root festival, it was in this round dance, it was in this Naraya that way was described, because it was in that way the people would come together, and they would eat they roots and these seeds and these things . And when they were there doing that they would bring those things that they could transplant with them. And they would spread it around this way, and they would share it with one another. And they planted it where it would grow. They would put the Camas in the sunny wet ground. They might dig up lots of sod and just stick Camas in and wild onions. Things like that. So they could bring it about one another. So people could have it on their hoops. And they shared them in this way. They both ate them and planted them back in this way. In these root festival and these round dances, ceremonially and really. Practically. That was what was done. And Wavoka said if we would enjoin that way and plant those things back and do those dances and return to our way of life that was symbiotic, then we could return the balance and that was what he hoped would happen.
Who was Wavoka?
Wavoka was a Paute man who came up at the last moments of any free Indian existence in America. It was he was the one that took the idea of the round dance, the very one which I’m talking to you of, that our life way is in this dance, let us begin to dance it.
That thought he took to the people at the very last moments, just at the beginning of the Reservation period for Indian in America.
And what were they doing prior than his vision? What had the rounddance become?
It has been forgotten having to survive against an onslaught of material people and warfare. And in that onslaught of people and material warfare, they were being swept away. And Wavoka said Hang on to this round dance, hang on to this way of planting back the roots that feed us on the land this way. Hang on to this interaction that is symbiotic to the mother. This is our round dance, this is our ghost dance. This is the returning of the balance. Remember the spirit of our ancestors in this way. Hang on to these ideas. Dance this dance, and eat these roots, and plant them back, and let the thing that feeds you be the thing you feed. Do it non linearly, just do it wherever you go. You don’t find rows of camas, people don’t find rows of biscuit root. They were everywhere. The people planted their trails back everywhere they walked. That was their dance, how they lived their lives everywhere they walked. Everything they took from the earth. They had on their side a bag, not of tobacco, but a bag of biscuits and seeds and this and that and seeds and of every little bit they took of, they planted a little bit of what would grow there. And they did it everywhere they went for everything they took. And for every exchange they made, they fed the mother back from that pouch. And that was their medicine pouch. That was their medicine. There was nothing “great” or “mysterious” or “mystical” thing. Not tobacco certainly. But tobacco represented something, and that was what it represented.
I’ve heard that the medicine wheel off balance is what’s creating the imbalance in the world.
I’m talking about how this related to our way of life, it wasn’t just feathers and beads and powwow.
So talk about Naraya. Today’s Round Dance
The naraya, the piumpsha, the round dance. These ideas need to be co-opted by this old idea. They need to remember where the dance came from. They need to replace the elements of their rituals that are not these roots and this interaction with these roots and this interaction. Make these things sacred again, and bring them back into their lives again, and teach their children these things again. This was the culture of the people there. And these things need to be taught these ways again. And the people become symbiotic with these sisters and have them in their lives again in a good way and give them life, and allow these sisters to give them life. Begin to make that exchange again, because in that way we can return to that life way and there’s the returning of the balance.
To talk about todays naraya or piumsha, or potlatch or any of these circle dances if you make it a mystical religion where by these prayers or dances and this pinch of tobacco is sufficient for your conscience in your interaction with the earth mother then your using the dance to excuse you from the work. That the interaction what was called for was required.
If your conscious could be cheap paid off for with a pinch of tobacco, a song and a dance. And didn’t require truly your interactions with these roots was to be symbiotic in any way, so you make prayers that the earth be renewed and may she be abundant and the only thing that stopping that from happening, the only thing that is standing in that process is you. And if you’re not willing to engage these things that would allow you to become symbiotic in this way then when you’re praying at these Narayas , or round dances or piumsha or potlatches of any kind ghost dances, for this renewal and you yourself are doing nothing to make this process happen, this is what Jesus said about people making prayers “that you get a ride” “god bless you” “I hope you stay warm”, but then don’t give any of those things you have in your possession that might have aided that process, and in so doing you condemn yourself in a way, cause you’re standing in the way of your prayer and if you’re praying for the earth to renew herself, and you’re the only thing standing in the way is you and your behavior and if you’re not willing to change it or become symbiotic in this way you’re praying for your own demise.
And how could you hate anybody like me or wavoka or anybody who would agree with you in your prayer.
And I don’t want to be preachy but I want to get this down. I think in modern times all kinds of examples. When they disbanded the tribe of the Klamath people, the muggleshoot people, or the chipmunk people of the lake, or however you describe those people. When they condemned their reservation and sold it to the Forest Service, and paid those people all 500,000 dollars, there was a man among them that would not take the money. He built a fire, and some friends helped him maintain that fire, I think it was some new age white ladies. And they stood with Edison Chiloquin, and helped him maintain his fire. And many of the people who received the money in the dissolution of their tribe felt badly about themselves maybe cause they didn’t like Edison Chiloquin, they talked bad about him sometimes they did. When he did not take the money like the rest of them, he stood under their condemnation, he stood 10 years or more with that fire burning, and finally the government honored Edison Chiloquin by giving him this piece of land because he didn’t not want to take money but have tribal land help in perpetuity. And not to let this thing go away. And he stood their and required that of the government, and finally the government relinquished and gave it to Chiloquin who was praised by the people, and they honored him in his life, and was like an Elder among them. I remember watching him a lot as I was coming through
And when he died, they heaped great honors to him at his death. And as I stood there looking at this reality, and I stood there among the people and I saw none of them that became him. In all the things that they did do, despising him, honoring him, appreciating him, loving him, whatever. None of them became him. And it’s like when you talk about Jesus saying this is how it is to be a son of God. And he goes away hoping to see you become a son of god. And instead you have a religion that is waiting for Jesus to save them. And here we are waiting for Jesus to save them, and I see Jesus waiting for them to become sons of God. And that’s what it is.
So this idea of spending time in this society that condemns itself in its own behavior. I don’t want to spend my time blowing on smoldering leaves or a potential movement of any kind. I see I want to go back to the living of this way in the sagebrush. I want to go back to that way of life. If I do anything other than that, That is something other than living in the sagebrush. If I stay in this town, or any town, and do these teachings or opening this idea to others minds, being a selfish savage that I am, those things keeping me from something else, which is living in this way. And when I go out there to dig my roots and live on this bounty of banquet, I don’t find any people out there. And I think of that work of just being out there interacting in a symbiotic way with these sisters that feed me, these wildflowers that feed me, is the work I need to be doing, and everything else is not that, but everything else is a part of that something else, and all of that something else is part of another way, but it’s not this way I’m talking about. The way that might return a balance to the earth. If we were to return to this way of life again, go back to our medicine wheel, our round dance. If only we would dance this ghostdance in this way, embracing the truth, and go back to a way that was symbiotic, go back to our root festival. That was the hope, though, that prophecy and prayer, both of the Hopis and Wavokas. And so I would say the same thing. To not make nonsense out of truths with symbols, but understand the truths that were there, return to them, and restore balance. It would restore people on the mother who could be symbiotic and not be a parasite and that’s the difference this dance could make. That was what this round dance, this piumsha, this potlatch or this ghostdance, that’s what these things are really about. That was all I need to say about it.
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