Is there a specific custume to wear with this style? I want to do a ghawazee with a 25 yard skirt, is this ok?
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 1:28 PMGhawazee are from Egypt. No? -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 3:51 PMI think she means a 'ghawazee' coat?
It's a popular style based on Ottoman entari/caftan.
Personally, I think the coat is fine, but I've never seen anyone wear one with a big skirt. Salwar would be more in style.
If they wore a skirt it seemed more usual to wear a fitted jacket, or vest maybe.
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 6:24 PMWhen I perform a Rom-inspired dance I usually wear salwars and avoid the skirt. In many Romani traditions the touching of the skirt in public is taboo. Skirt gestures are seen in some cultures-Turkish, Spanish, and Russian, but extended skirt dancing is not traditional to Romany dance.
I wear salwars so that I won't be tempted to fuse in skirt dancing--unless I clearly represent that it is my intention to fuse the two styles.
Consider what you want to represent and then build your costuming from there--if it is traditional then you may want to consider the salwar with an enteri (a ghawazee style jacket is a very similar.) If you are going to fuse some skirt dancing or flamenco styling or if you know you can avoid the temptation during a traditional dance to overuse the skirt then go for the skirt.
There is an interesting article written by Artemis Mourat explaining the origins of skirt dancing on her site. www.serpentine.org (which seems to be unavaible at the moment but definitely try later and look under articles)
Forgive me if you knew all this all ready and have seen this--your question doesn't indicate how familiar or not that you are with Turkish Romany dance and I figured I'd err on the side of too much of an answer to your question rather than too little.
Shuvani also has a lot of info and pictures of their costuming and performances on their site www.shuvani.com
Simona Jovic also has some great pictures and information on her website www.simonajovic.com
You can see that Simona has pics with both salwar and pics with skirts so both are definitely an option.
Hope you find some ideas on these!
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 7:17 PMI wasnt intending to touch the skirt, I just thought it would look fantastic with the hops, turns and skips. I wanted to wear the coat over it though. I just wasnt sure this was appropriate, I think it is more self doubt.....So the coat with the skirt is ok??? -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Fri, August 10, 2007 - 8:42 AMIt depends on how accurate you want to be.
Skirts are not usually worn with a Ghawazee coat, but if you want to wear one, I would have my coat no longer then hip length, since that is closer to accurate costume, plus I think a long coat would drag the eye down and make you look bottom heavy.
Maybe also hold the skirt down and restrict movement.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say is it ok. Is this for a historically or culturally accurate event? Do you need refs. or documentation?
If it's your own fusion or interpretive piece clothing wise, I wouldn't worry to much.
Dancers do wear skirts, but like I mentioned, it would be with a fitted jacket style.
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Mon, August 13, 2007 - 1:16 AMThe only time I've every seen anyone where a skirt is when it's a fitted jacket not the whole coat. I've seen a more modern picture of some folklore dancers in a vest and skirt but they still had shawlar on. So I guess like everyone said it depends on what you are going for.
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Unsu...
Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Wed, February 13, 2008 - 8:53 AMYou seem to know a lot about this subject, so I thought I might ask you about your opinion on Reyhan's clothing in this video: www.youtube.com/watch
I personally think this performace is one of the most beautiful I've ever seen. It was also my very first encounter with this type of dance, and a very pleasant experience at that :) -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Wed, February 13, 2008 - 4:23 PMReyhan--love her!! She won the overall contest for Oryantal Star that year.
Not sure who exactly your question is directed to--the overall group or a specific person, but I thought I'd post a reply. Everyone here is helpful so I know you'll get the whole story if I don't have it here.
I think the costume is beautiful, but to me it looks like it is more of a bellydance costume based off of a fantasy version of what a "Gypsy" might wear rather than an actual historically (or modern for that matter) accurate portrayal of native costuming. The skirt might fit and maybe even a scarf--though not necessarily one exactly like the one she's wearing, but the mid-drift baring top moves it away from true according to everything I've read. A blouse (gomlek), vest, salwar, a skirt and either a belt or sash depending on the area would be more of a traditional style--and like Rom pointed out below--more likely blue jeans these days for everyday wear.
I have not seen clips of other contestants from that same year of the show, but I can tell you that in clips that I've seen for 2006 and 2007--each week the contestants are given a different style of oriental dance to perform. They each have a separate piece of music, but the overall concept--Egyptian, Rom, Bulgarian, African, Bollywood, a certain prop to use, fuse oriental dance to a certain style of music etc. -- is the same for each dancer.
I have noticed that for each week's clips the costume was the same except for color and small variations that a dancer might make herself--jewelry, or how a skirt was tucked or a scarf was tied. I think that the show is probably choosing the style of costume and the perhaps the dancers get a choice of color. (At least that would be what I'd hope for--that yellow is stunning on Reyhan, but I'd look like I had jaundice if I tried to wear it.)
Here is a clip of Aysel performing a Romani style dance on Oryantal Star
www.youtube.com/watch
And this is Ozlem
www.youtube.com/watch
And this is Deniz
www.youtube.com/watch
And this is Pinar
www.youtube.com/watch
And Nilay
www.youtube.com/watch
And a short recap clip that supports my theory
www.youtube.com/watch
I believe that they were all competing the same year. And the costumes are for the most part the same style but different colors.
I'm not 100% certain because the dates are all over the place as to when these were posted on YouTube, but it would seem to be the 2006 competition.
If anyone is certain on those dates and who competed against whom, please post.
I have found clips for each of these girls in the other weeks styles--same thing costume alike except for coloring. I have yet to find a clip of Reyhan dancing another week or of anyone wearing the same style of costume that she has on. Artemis mentions in her article that Reyhan was the winner of the competition the first year it aired--2005 maybe?
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Wed, February 13, 2008 - 4:33 PM
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Unsu...
Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 12:07 PMHülya - it was you I was I was asking, just haven't gotten used to how the forums here on Tribe work yet so I forgot to address you.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge! I have to say that fantasy version or not, she does look gorgeous in that costume. I like to think that heritage and nationality don't matter, but when it comes to costuming it obviously does ;) Being a pale Scandinavian I could never pull that yellow off..
I have seen a few videos from the Oryantal Star competition, but not the ones you linked to, so thank you again! I think you are right about the concept as well. Do you know if the choreography is created by the dancers themselves, or if they are given to them? Some of the girls don't look very comfortable with some of the moves.. As for when Reyhan won the competition, I thought it was in 2006 until I read your reply. I think I'm going to have to ask my dance teacher, I do remember her mentioning the ATV channel so it might be that she knows.
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Mon, August 13, 2007 - 6:15 PMthis is what inspired me
www.youtube.com/watch
but I wasnt sure if I was going to do a Authentic dance if this would be appropriate -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Mon, November 12, 2007 - 8:57 PMthat looks more like historical persian inspired costume...
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 8:15 AMI really like this look, I like the contrasting colors... It sure is inspiring me!
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Mon, August 13, 2007 - 7:22 PMOk I gave up and Called Artie.......
The coat is "ok" but for "authentic" it must be the pants and vest with shirt........but that is ok
I may do a fusion with a historical aspect which is where the coat comes in......I got a Yes Yes Yes from Arite on that one.......so less confused, a little dissapointed but all in all Id rather be right......
Dina this pic would be perfect for what your trying to do with your costumeing, this is the Turish Rom "proper" costume!!! but I think it is what you are looking for!!!
www.serpentine.org/artemis/artemis.htm (4th pic down, last one) -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Mon, August 13, 2007 - 8:07 PMAlso check out www.shuvani.com (Dances from the Romany Trail) for more Rom information. -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Tue, August 14, 2007 - 10:11 AMok, i guess i get that you want a historical look from another time period, because whats been discussed is certainly not what Rom in Turkey are wearing today. Yet they still dance amazingly! I love that they look so natural. most Rom women I see wear simple A frame skirt, and a baggy shirt. often a tee shirt.
young Rom in Istanbul, wear jeans and hip fashion.... I love contemporary Rom dance, its less the costume that makes it `look Rom`, and more the feeling... if you`ve got the feeling, you can wear anything. -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Wed, August 15, 2007 - 12:12 AMDUHHH yes I should have said that. Historical Rom!!! -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Wed, August 15, 2007 - 1:24 PMOr just ask THIS Rom :) hehehe
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Wed, February 13, 2008 - 12:39 PMAmen to that. It's all in feeling. I don't care for Carella's costuming, and I have seen Romani dance in jeans and nail it much more than someone in full dress that is iffy.
Let me put it this way--what does your SPIRIT say to you when you dance Romani style? Then go for it ;)
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Mon, November 12, 2007 - 11:20 PMYou've almost hit in on the head. :) -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Mon, November 12, 2007 - 11:20 PMI love what Artie is wearing in the 3rd picture. I could totally rock that. :) -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, February 14, 2008 - 2:10 AMsorry to keep this old post going but....
here is my wife's teacher Reyhan Tuzsuz and her violinist husband Husnu, who reside in Gaziosmanpasa, an area of Istanbul. this video is in their house. this is how she dresses most of the time.
www.youtube.com/watch
: ) -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, February 14, 2008 - 6:01 AMlove it !
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, February 14, 2008 - 8:04 AMNow, apart from big thanks for posting a clip that shows some seriously fabulous dancing, I would assume that her outfit is not formal performance attire, but rather practice/party/teaching clothes (it would be rather silly to put on a costume for teaching or an informal jam at home). I'm not completely sure that for a staged performance in the US, one should copy the T-shirt and gauzy skirt outfit. -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 3:35 AMright Steffi, you're welcome! she's great isn't she?! but i was just showing it cuz... for the fun. not that anybody would wear this.
you wouldn't necessarily know this, but it is interesting that Reyhan made this video and chose to wear this 'costume', knowing it would go out to the public and was in fact made as a little promo video for them. so she must have thought about how she wanted to present herself. that said, she has only ever performed on stage in America last year, and i don't know exactly what she wore. info from my wife: Reyhan generally wears a very supped up version of this outfit on the video when she goes to a wedding where she dances for everyone in an informal way. like a very sparkly tight t-shirt with a long skirt or şalvar and also a loose headscarf(not like a traditional muslim headscarf). pretty loud and glitzy stuff.
in the public performance realm(like on stage or restaurants), i have seen many different modes of dress for romany style. some are very Turkish Dans Oryantal style, some almost like Reyhan, and some in the middle.
best,
david -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 9:11 AMI access youtube from work, but I believe this is the same Reyhan that taught and performed here in MD last May. I was one of the photographers from the event. I'm not sure it would be right for me to post pictures here without her permission, but I can describe what she wore for the performance. Let me go home and take a good look at the pictures and I will post a description. -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 1:00 PMyes it's the same Reyhan. thanks. we can ask the promoters and Reyhan if they'd allow a couple to go up on the site. i don't see why not. -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 1:35 PMYea, let me know if it is ok and I will post. Should I also ask the person who put on the event? -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 7:11 PMGot the oks, Posting pictures now:) -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:09 AMAlright! REYHAN! Thanks Carey. -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 5:42 AMYou are very welcome.
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 3:54 PMI agree most of the responses here. I have been searching myself what would be the appropriate costuming for staging, competitions, social dancing. I am TUrkish grew up in Turkey, Istanbul. I had many visits to Sulukule wehre the major gypsy town is, also watched many many movies, films, TV programs where gypsies dance. I have seen once that make money by dancing in taverns by the water, Bhosporus, those girls wear some simple Turkish bra belt sets with basic skirts, I have also seen mostly the social style of dancing which is the most Authentic way you have seen it since Roman style is a social style of dance, ladies wear basic heavy cotton with flower pattern skirts (they are not our full skirts by the way), and basic tshirts with small headscarves. So it is a very basic comfortable social outfit that they just wear in their daily lives. When they go to weddings, this could be more upgraded to dresses or more fancy material and style.I have seen videos that they hold their skirts or mostly tuck the skirts to make it puffy in the front or perhaps this is because they dont want to step on it ;-)...they wear shoes or no shoes. I have not seen real gypsies however wear outfits that show skins, quite conservative. I do dance gypsy style in my performances and i dont have chance to change if I am mixing, from my regular Turkish bra/belt or Bella costume which Bella hardly makes regular bra belt, usually attached. -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Mon, May 12, 2008 - 4:07 PMI have a bra belt set from Bella. Found it on her shelf in her boutique in Istanbul, while everyone else tried on whole costumes. I got a bra-belt set, and a skirt-veil set for about half the price of what the others paid for their complete costumes, and there is hardly a difference in the way it looks. ; ) Plus I can exchange the skirt and vary it. For a gypsy costume I just used a bra, skirt and two hipscarves and/or a bead-coin belt. Turkish pantalons would probably work too, isn't it?
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Wed, May 21, 2008 - 8:27 PMI saw Reyhan perform at the DC Herdeljezi festival last weekend, and here's what she was wearing (as I remember it):
A long sparkly headscarf with two big flowers added for accent/decoration; a leotard (no skin showing); a tie-front cropped shirt with long sleeves; two layered hip scarves, one with coins; a long cotton skirt with a floral print; and footies. Everything was very colorful and not matchy-matchy. She looked absolutely adorable, and her performance was amazing. I didn't get photos because my jaw was on the floor. I regret it now!!!! -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, May 22, 2008 - 7:47 AMyeah, that is too bad you did not get the pics. I would have liked to have seen it.
What are footies? -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, May 22, 2008 - 9:05 AMIn answer to the footies question, I saw the same *fabulous* performance. Reyhan wore bright red lace or fishnet socks. No shoes. She also wore gold dangly earings. I saw her perform last year as well and this year's "costume" was much more elaborate. For example, last year, she didn't wear a coin hip scarf. -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Thu, May 22, 2008 - 9:19 AMfishnet socks?? What is the purpose of those, if they have any? -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 4:54 AMThey had a solid bottom, so I suspect she just didn't want to go totally barefoot. -
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Re: Proper costume for Turkish Rom
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 4:04 PMThis is what i decided on, a green poofy sleved shirt, green turkish vest matching skirt and harempants. with a old gold hip scarf my dad got for me at a second hand store. It was a beautiful set. I hope that it was good enough. Here is a link to the only photo, sorry aout the kanji and blurryness. If i get more I will post
koukanh14.blog122.fc2.com/
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