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Hi everyone, I'd like to open a thread about a subject that I'm particularly interested in, Turkish Roman women who also perform Orientale dance. I know there are some! I feel like the 'fusion' of Roman dance and bellydance (and other Roman dance fusions) is sort of a heated topic, but here I'd like to discuss Turkish Roman women who perform Orientale dance in cabaret costumes in public.
This is what I've got. I have a pretty cool dvd called Iste Super Oriental and has Roman women bellydancing. There are also (Im guessing) non Roman women dancers, Tulay Karaca and Burcin Orhon, but the only Roman woman's name I can gleam from the many dancers is Firuze Sultan. But anyway, they bellydance, they put Roman movements in, it looks authenticly Rom and totally cool. I also have a book called Oriental Belly Dance by Kemal Osdemir (while not the deepest read is a great reference to Turkish Oriental dancers and costumes of the eras) that references "gypsy dancers in Sulukule" with pix.
So what I wonder is where do Roman orientale dancers perform? Weddings or clubs? Who do they learn bellydance from? And also in my understanding of the Roma as a modest people, is it accepted in Turkish Roman culture to see a young Roman woman wearing bedleh and dancing in public?
The dancing I have seen on this video is unlike anything I've seen so far on youtube (as far as Roman/bellydance goes. They dont dance like Orientale Reyhan, or like Reyhan Tusuz, they don't look like the dancer discussed on the Tarkan thread, they play zills, its great!) Iste Super Oriental is manufactured and distributed by Saut Wa Soora Co in LA. I got it on ebay but its pretty low quality-doesnt play in my laptop, doesnt play on some dvd players.
I hope to hear some opinions and feedback about this subject! xoxoK
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Thu, February 19, 2009 - 6:38 PM -
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Thu, February 19, 2009 - 6:45 PMSema dances this style but no, she is not a Roma. She has joined tribe, by the way. She grew up in or near Sukulele (that place in Istanbul where I supported the campaign to save it from the bulldozers a while ago, remember?)
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Sun, February 22, 2009 - 7:22 AMI don't know whether Inci or Selma are Roma. The music they dance to in these is Turkish, though, in my opinion. The style is definitely orientale.
The Selma piece is 4/4 and 2/4 time, and is Arabic style rhythms--a fast maksuum and fellahi--done they way the Turks do them.
Inci's piece is a 9/8, and is the rhythm that's used in Mastika. The melody is different, but that's not unusual.
It made me smile that the audience in the Inci video didn't understand the 9/8 rhythm, either. They quit clapping to the rhythm when it couldn't fit. HAHAHAHA! -
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Sun, February 22, 2009 - 8:23 AMThe lady's name is not Selma, it is Sema. Inci Adali is dancing to Rompi, rompi, and obviously the melody is different from Mastika. There are all kinds of Roman havasi songs in the 9/8 or 7/8 or 5/8 rhythm, it just so happens that Rompi, rompi and Mastika are very well known in the US.
I don't know whether Inci adali is a Roma but I doubt it.
Didem, however, is Roma but what you see her dancing here is just a faint resemblance of Romani oyun:
www.youtube.com/watch
The high heels seem ot make it difficult, too. -
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Mon, February 23, 2009 - 10:00 AMI stand corrected, Astrid. But no comment on my observation that the Turks couldn't clap to the 9/8?
LOL!
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Sun, February 22, 2009 - 8:24 AMfrom my friends that know her, Sema Yildiz says herself that she is not Rom. she does do roman style dance, but I didn't see any Rom moves in this video.
Incı sure has a great cabaret/roman mix going. she could be roman, she definitely has the Turkish Rom moves!!! the only reason i question her being an actual roman is her skin color. i have never seen a turkish roman person with skin color(and hair) like this, not that it couldn't happen but it just seems unlikely. she's awesome though either way, she knows what's up. the band must have some Roman - i have to guess at least the clarinet player!
btw, the Turkish singer in my group calls this tune Çadırımın Üstüne(smtg about 'over my tent' ? ), commonly known in the states as Rompi Rompi. And Todd thank you for not calling that rhythm karşilama!!! ; ) It is a standard Turkish 9/8 but has no name.
good luck kristnh. this quest may be more difficult than finding black beans, gen maicha tea or nutritional yeast in Turkey. -
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Sun, February 22, 2009 - 8:28 AMnow that i wrote about skin color i think of Didem who is also very light and is turkish roman. they could be half euro and half roman... ? it's just that to my experiences the turkish roman don't seem to marry out of their culture / ethnic group very often. if someone has additional info about that i'd be curious to know more... : )
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Sun, February 22, 2009 - 8:32 AMHa! If only I were so lucky to have some awsome friend delivering me what I seek. xoxo -
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Sun, February 22, 2009 - 8:50 AM"now that i wrote about skin color i think of Didem who is also very light and is turkish roman."
David, have you ever met Didem in person or taken a closer look at her videos? Her skin is as dark as it gets, she is way darker than Reyhan, only her hair is bleached blonde. She still does not look Roman to me but she is.
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Sun, February 22, 2009 - 8:55 AM"The dancing I have seen on this video is unlike anything I've seen so far on youtube (as far as Roman/bellydance goes. They dont dance like Orientale Reyhan, or like Reyhan Tusuz, they don't look like the dancer discussed on the Tarkan thread, they play zills, its great!) Iste Super Oriental is manufactured and distributed by Saut Wa Soora Co in LA"
I've got an inkling what the problem may be with not being able to find dancers that looklike that in Turkey. ; )
I also had a peek at your "Turkish style" costume photo... -
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Sun, February 22, 2009 - 1:51 PMSo we know that certain Roman women perform orientale dance on popular tv shows in Turkey. Im pretty sure that one of the dancers at a club I was at in Istanbul was Roman (again, hard to know besides that she had the look about her. And the Turkish snapping of a decible which I've only heard the Roma accomplish)
Do Turkish weddings ever feature a bellydancer? How about Roman weddings? I saw one episode of a tv show that aired in Turkey about a Roman family (the actors werent really Roman-another can of worms) who held a big wedding with two bellydancers. Does anyone know if this actually happens? -
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Sun, February 22, 2009 - 7:26 PMFrankly, I don't think so. I have not been to a wedding but I have seen private videos of real weddings and ben to Roma parties and all they seemed to do was line dancing or group dancing.
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Sun, February 22, 2009 - 10:17 PMi haven't seen bellydancing yet after having gone to many normal turkish weddings. guests folk/line dance to folk music(live or dj) from the areas where the families are from is the most popular activity it seems. if the families have more money they will have actual performances like pro folk dance groups, big band, singer. i'll ask some folks about this... -
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Mon, February 23, 2009 - 5:58 AMI think, if the bellydancers were asked to dance at weddings, they might have a slightly better reputation in Turkey and be regarded as a little more than some sort of floozy. I remember sitting with Sema and another student of hers in an open air sheesha cafe in Sultanahmed at night, and the owner and waiters were constantly grinning like the cats that ate the canaries. Jesus! I kept asking the owner:"Why do you keep looking at me like that?" and he grinned even more, demanded a farewell kiss when we left with an even bigger grin etc. Argh! -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Mon, February 23, 2009 - 11:23 AMThanks David, Im really curious to hear what you come up with. Perhaps this would be more constructive off of tribe. Email me! xoxoK
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Tue, February 24, 2009 - 7:36 PMI will give it another try. According to the title Jasmine - Romanian woman blonde belly dancer TV Show Romania
Once again not saying that she is but the titile implies
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: Turkish Roman bellydancers! Who? Where? What context?
Tue, February 24, 2009 - 8:40 PM
Thanks Viviana! I appreciate your links. xoxoK
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