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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Wed, November 29, 2006 - 10:09 AMThat just made my day 100% better. I almost spit my coffee out when Rick (?) said "Hold up Kid. Nobody understands your music but yourself" I had forgotten that.
You all rocked...so when is the repeat performance?
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Wed, November 29, 2006 - 10:13 AMAwesome! Thanks for sharing that : )!
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Wed, November 29, 2006 - 5:47 PMIt's already spreading. An East Coast friend of mine from another board (who's a HUGE Prince fan) linked to it on another board.
Who was the videographer? Had to love the focus on Laura's cleavage... -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 12:02 PMMe too...
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Sat, December 2, 2006 - 8:43 PMit was our friend Rose. she's great! -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 7:50 PMWe gotta buy Rose dinner or something.
I'll post a couple other clips just as soon as I get back from Seattle. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Mon, December 11, 2006 - 10:12 PMWell, YouTube has issued me a Cease and Desist due to a complaint of DCMA violations registered by Universal Music.
I have three points to make about this. First, I believe that cover performances are completely allowed in all interpretations of music copyright law. Second, Prince is no longer with Universal Music, I believe. Third, as their appeal process seems to suggest the need for a lawyer, I will fire off a quick rebut and then probably fold and remove all the clips if they don't go for it.
Sadly, I cannot afford to be protected by the law in America. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Mon, December 11, 2006 - 11:15 PMHoly shit!! That REALLY sucks Kelly! -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Mon, December 11, 2006 - 11:50 PMand prince himself is notorious for suing people who cover his stuff (even when he gave them permission) when they refuse to fuck him later.
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 12:38 AMKelly would *totally* fuck Prince. For the sake of the *art*, right, man ; )?
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 1:41 AMKelly, what exactly is a DCMA violation? I am very close friends with a copyright/intellectual property attorney who has done free/pro-bono work for me when I was attacked on the web (I routinely call him up for free legal advice for personal as well as professional needs). I am very eager to contact him about this and see if anything can be done. I hope that you might only have to take the videos down for a little while, as opposed to permanently. Maybe I can get a letter from my friend that he or you can send to YouTube.... I make no guarantees but I will see what I can do.... this really sounds like an over-reaction on YouTube's part, considering how many music videos and other material that is up there of a more commercial nature. If Prince is covered by a law that does not allow anyone to cover his music or to make recordings of covers of his music, then the law really stinks and it really ought to be changed... Artists are always covering other artists work...maybe they have to pay a fee or something, but I really don't know, andd if that is what happens maybe there would be a clause for those that are not making any profit from it (I mean, it's not like you are selling these videos), maybe covers of lyrics can be covered under the "Fair Use" of the Copyright Law, whic would state that the lyrics are being used for "study and reference purposes" and for "academic" type uses.... and literary copyright expires, I think, after 17 years, so you could reprint (and presumably copy/sing his lyrics) without him having a leg to stand on, unless music lyrics have the same protection that films do, now under the new copyright law foisted on us under pressure by Walt Disney... I am sufficiently annoyed (and troubled) that I will contact my friend immediately...
By the way, if Prince had an agreement with Universal that granted them copyright or any ownership of the tapes or whatever, those might still be in effect even if Prince is no longer with that label, kind of like how various groups and individuals have cds of music released under their old/various labels, kind of like Frank Sinatra, has the Best of Frank under the Columbia, Reprise, and Capitol labels, and you all probably know or have heard how some labels prevent the music under their control from being released or reissued... there is a lot of great music whose copyright has clearly lapsed but which is not being released or re-issued because the labels refuse to release them for whatever reason/s.. the labels may or may not own the copyright, but they own the physical tape/s or recording media that the recordings are on... initial agreements of artists with their first labels sometimes prevents those artists from doing recordings with other labels until a certain time has elapsed... Copyright is a funny thing.... the British label Proper does nothing but release music whose copyright has expired (music before 1950 for the most part) and sells these lapsed copyright recordings (including some amazing box sets) and whose sound is usually pretty incredible (they do a great job of remastering early recordings), at dirt cheap prices and, last I heard, Proper was being pressured to stop their releases, but, gratefully, they are apparently still continuing, at least, for the time being...
Yours in spirit, sympathy, and understanding, Kelly. I will let you know when I learn anything.
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 8:04 PMlet's expatriate!
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Wed, December 13, 2006 - 8:43 AMWell, I knew what a gold and brown shower/rain were before. From now on, I think I'm gonna call this copyright-related rain o'crap a purple shower/rain.... whew, what an education... I hope y'all know that I love the music you guys and gals played, just hate the copyright stuff concerning it (you should all feel great about that show, I hope you don't let this copyright business put any damper on it... it's just too bad you can't share it with anyone online)....
By the way, would someone please tell me what the set list was for the most recent show? And as a further digression, maybe someday all of you could have a performance of copyright free tunes and film that baby and put it on youtube.... You could call it the Fuck BMI and ASCAP and the lawyers they rode on show....
A
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Thu, November 30, 2006 - 1:19 PMconsidering how many off-the-hook shows i've worked on, it's REEEELLY nice to actually SEE one of them.
or part of one.
whatever.
fuck off.
:o) -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 8:21 AMThat is fucking lame! Fuck YouTube in its tuby little web ass. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 8:43 AMAs a lot of folks guessed, when YouTube got absorbed by the Google-beast, things started getting shut down. See, I think about that Jake Shimabakura clip of his playing "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" on uke (which, by the way, no one else needs to send to me) and wonder what the difference between that and my performance is? Well, it's that he is represented by a record company with a lot of cash and lawyers who could fight this sort of thing.
Aaron, thanks for your concern and offer, but unless your friend also wants to represent me for free, I'm afraid that even if I'm in the right, I probably have to pull the videos down. Sigh. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 9:34 AMKelly, let me see if I can find out a) who is legally right and b) if you are, if my friend will do any pro-bono work for you. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 9:48 AMit's going to be like the old napster days where you have to post everything misspelled so it's harder to find.
and then it will cease to be cool because of all the suing.
and then people will just stop using it
and then google and everyone else may finally learn you don't make money by NOT giving people what they want. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 9:59 AMI thiink thhe difference here is that Google didn't want YouTube's business. They wanted to eliminate the competition to their "Google Video" business. Now they're the only game in town. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 10:57 AMbastards.
it's unclear to me what that "business" is. google video makes money how?
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 12:08 PMAs an aside, I find it interesting to compare what is free (for now) and what appears to be untroubled by copyright concerns (but what is harassed by those of who have a certain kind of morals) (i.e. pornographic photographs taken by amateurs) and what is troubled by copyright concerns and what might require a subscription to a certain kind of web site where you pay money to place your own content online and/or to view it (i.e. independent films of performances of covers, where no profit is being made or sought, except by the web page hosting it)... if we could just get a website where we could place video on it, a site that does not put up any ad content and that thereby makes revenue (i.e. a free, public utility... a public access channel on the web.... kind of like a free adult hosting site that does not put up any ads either) then things might be more legally clear... Hmm. Maybe we could put up the videos on a free amateur site and have some amateur video and some music in the background... Then maybe you could truly and freely go "Crazy"... Btw, I have left a message with my friend the attorney and will see if there is anything to do...
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 4:53 PMOk, I talked to my friend the copyright/intellectual property attorney in Washington, DC, who gave me a fascinating, if depressing, lecture and run-down on the copyright law, which concerns anything of a tangible medium/form... First, he informed me that a party does not have to be making money in order to be found guilty of violating copyright. He suggested that a way to get out of the present unhappiness and to get the ability to put the videos back up might be a simple priocess of paying a royalty to Universal or whoever owns the copyright to the material (the videos being on YouTube does constitute a performance of the material, and one without ther permission of the copyright holder and/or one without a royalty being paid to Universal (kind of as if a radio station played music over the air and did not pay a royalty to BMI or ASCAP... He noted that pizza parlors usually choose not to pay royalties to either of these organizations and so do not sing the official Happy Birthday song to their patrons on their birthdays, and so have chosen to make up their own birthday songs). He said that the people/firm/copyright owner who sues for violation of copyright can choose to sue either for A) statutory damages (which is $100,000 per event) or b) actual damages. So, if someone was ticked off that a song was performed illegally/without a royalty being paid, they could choose to ask for $100,000 or, if it was a suit against a person who stole the most recent edition of Harrty Potter before it was printed and then printed it illegally and made a fortune on it, the copyright holder of the Harry Potter books could sue for the actual damages in lost revenue, which could, in this hypothetical case, be millions of dollars....
Copyright used to be for an initial period of 35 years with the option to renew for 36 more years (or 35 + 36). Then, in the 1970s, a revision of the copyright was enacted, to help provide for the financial security of the creator of the work in question and his/her immediate family. This extended the copyright period, so that the length of a copyright was now for the length of the lifetime of the creator plus an additional forty or fifty years (or Life + 40/50). Then, fairly recently, in 1998, the Republican Congress, under extreme pressure from Walt Disney Corporation, passed a law that extended the length of a work's copyright again, as Disney did not want Steamboat Willie and Mickey Mouse to fall into public domain. The new law now extends the copyright of a work to cover the lifetime of the copyright holder plus an additional 70 years(!!!) (or Life + 70).... In addition, works made before 1978 that had already been copyrighted had their copyright extended by another 20 years (Life + 90 (!!!)) This means that Steamboat Willie will fall in the public domain in 2023. Another thing to note is that no additional works made in 1923 or afterwards that were still copyrighted in 1998 will enter the public domain until 2019, unless the owner of the copyright releases them into the public domain prior to that. (Wikipedia has a good synopsis of the law: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy...ension_Act as well as links to lots of places that argue against the copyright law's extension of copyright.
This really sucks.... I understand that the copyright law is meant to protect a body of work so that someone doesn't lose out on the benefits that might accrue as a result of their creativity, but, as my friend observes, the new law really stifles creativity.
Funkn,
A -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 6:01 PMThanks so much for this research, Aaron.
It was my understanding that live performance of cover versions of songs was not actually considered copyright violation. It sounds like I may be wrong.
Down go the videos... -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 6:20 PMFucking entertainment industry law & their lawyers suck.
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 6:23 PM
live performances of covers are not copyright violations.
but recordings of any kind (ie videos of performances) might be.
meanwhile i think i will tattoo steamboat willie on my ass.
then disney can take my ass to court. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 6:26 PMMay I direct your attention to exhibit A... Ludmilla's ASS. May it please the court. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 6:32 PMTo that, I will be a character witness!
Amen! -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 7:12 PM"live performances of covers are not copyright violations."
sorry dearest love, and although you will probably punish me severely for correcting you in public, this is not actually true. live performances of other people's copyrighted music is one of the things that BMI and ASCAP and the other performing rights organizations collect royalties for. prince is registered with BMI i think. typically it's not a problem at most clubs or bars because they are already paying some yearly payment to BMI to cover all the public performances (including playing the radio) that happen inside their establishment. but (theoretically) someone has to pay or get permission to do a performance of a copyrighted tune in public.
making a recording of a cover of an already recorded piece of music is handled in a completely different way. in this case, there is a compulsory license - meaning that the rights holder *has* to allow you to record your cover (which is kind of weird in a way) - but you have to pay a royalty to the harry fox agency and they handle distributing it to the original owners.
it's all a complicated mess and there are other rights for other situations - my favorites are moral rights - which have nothing to do with money but keep you from buying someone's painting and burning it, for example. but i'm very aware of all the stuff above because i've been on the receiving and paying side of it all many times over the years. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 8:07 PMThen am I understanding correctly that playing Prince in a club is PROBABLY covered by payments the club makes to cover public performances, but it could also not be?
Run for the hills, kids. We gots us a a revenuer on our tail!
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 7:22 PMActually, Ludmilla,
a) it appears that live performances of covers is a violation of copyright (that's how it sounded to me during my conversation today with my friend... it is just an open question as to whether anyone would bother to sue as a result of such a performance. If anyone is interested in this particular nuance (i.e the legal ramifications of playing covers at concerts), I will be glad to pursue this... very easy for me to send an email of inquiry to my friend.... bleep it, now I am interested... I will send out an email of inquiry and find out for sure if royalties need be paid, permissions gotten, or attributions made before they are played at concerts/performances....
b) recordings of any covers without permission and/or royalty payments is against the law -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 7:26 PMErling has the same understanding I got from my phone conversation today but s/he explained it in more detail and with more nuances than I could or did (and clearly knows the practical upside of the law far better than I do and that I got from my conversation). I will leave it here unless someone wants any more information/clarification from my friend. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 7:42 PMwell pooey. i hope joni mitchell or her agents won't be catching up with me for all those years i was doing her songs in coffee houses in la jolla.
how about giving steamboat willie a nice kiss then?
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 7:55 PM"how about giving steamboat willie a nice kiss then? "
Thanks for the offer but my copyright and ability to make reproductions and engage in performances belongs to another... -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 8:00 PMoh, that's very good
and i love the fact that you referred to me in a gender-neutral way. that's so ... gentlemanly. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Wed, December 13, 2006 - 8:26 AMWell none of us are really sure Erling. That's why I just refer to you as "Blob Creature #7" -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Wed, December 13, 2006 - 8:47 AMI meant no disrespect by using a gender neutral "s/he" for Erling... I hope Erling didn't/doesn't take any offense... I was just too busy to look at Erling's profile and determine the correct gender. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Wed, December 13, 2006 - 9:16 AM
no offense taken, A
on tribe, no one knows you're a dog
and isn't gender just a social construct?
now sanchez on the other hand (if that really is his name) offends me every which way -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Wed, December 13, 2006 - 10:14 AMI do what I can... -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Wed, December 13, 2006 - 10:17 AMAnd the smell usually lingers for hours when you do. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Wed, December 13, 2006 - 10:35 AMOh god! I have to judge a lot of things by what books he takes into my bathroom. If he grabs a magazine... probably ok. A comic book... open the windows. Gravity's Rainbow... run for the hills! -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Wed, December 13, 2006 - 12:25 PMDoes that time that he's in the bathroom with the publication constitute a performance (or lack thereof)? If so, he could be in violation of copyright.... -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 8:38 AMthis is sooooooo lame. stupid lame even. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 5:04 PMOk, me/my bad. I responded to Kelly's comment about Sanchez, and I tried to keep it in context by bringing up the concept of copyright..... I didn't mean for this interesting conversation about intellectual property to end (pardon the pun) in the toilet... such an inglorious end, too... -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Thu, December 14, 2006 - 5:55 PMoh, we're used to that.
maybe kelly's still getting used to it...
;o) -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 5:15 PMI'm not wearing any pants.
Just sayin. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 5:32 PMsee?
neither am i.
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 12:59 AMif I were to hypothetically say the word "mickey", and then right after that I said the word "mouse", while defecating on Jack Valenti's lawn, I could get in legal trouble for that?
ooh!! can I get in trouble for reproducing Jack Valenti's words without permission?
"I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone."
"People are taking fair use and changing it to unfair use and claiming that it’s fair use."
"A public domain work is an orphan. No one is responsible for its life. But everyone exploits its use, until that time certain when it becomes soiled and haggard, barren of its previous virtues."
"I think lobbying is really an honest profession."
... and my favorite:
“You cannot win against an insurgency that springs from the population." -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 1:34 AMI think you could maybe get in legal trouble for defecating on Valenti's lawn, but I think the chances of it happening are pretty incredibly remote, and it certainly wouldn't be for any violation of copyright or intellectual property issues. I also don't think you could get in trouble for reproducing Valenti's words without his permission because you identified where they came from and you didn't use them to make a profit (kind of like any student does when writing a report or essay and quotes someone in support of his/her paper/argument/thesis). As such, I think they truly constituted a "fair use". But I'm not a lawyer... I hope you know I was joking when I said that Sancez could be in violation of a copyright when he was doing a solitary performance with a publication while on the toilet.... (I never know if I am taken seriously or not).... -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 8:25 AMWhat is the turd looked like Jack Valenti? -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 8:35 AMput it next to the Nixon potato. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 4:22 PMAnd the Jesus toast. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 4:27 PMand the virgin mary grilled cheese sandwich. well what's left after the woman stopped eating it. -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Fri, December 15, 2006 - 4:47 PMI prefer to eat Paul's Reubens
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Fri, June 15, 2007 - 8:06 PM -
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Re: Purple Rain - For the Fans!
Mon, June 18, 2007 - 6:27 PMSee? Aren't cha glad you didn't tatoo Steambot Willie on your ass? This enlightening video gives you so many more Disney characters to choose from... (loved the video and the idea/s behind it... found it interesting that Mickey Mouse wasn't used in the video...Maybe I'm wrong and maybe the Mouse appears, but I don't seem to remember him in it)...
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