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What does 'unconditional' mean when it comes to loving others? Is it recognition that deep inside every human is a loving heart? Is it accepting people for who they are no matter what? Are there limits or conditions of unconditional love, if a person for instance loves to be contrary or whose views offend us?
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 9:12 AMI think unconditional love means loving without reservation, conditions or limits. It's not only about loving the people who are easy to love but everyone, even the people who are contrary and even if we have to love them from afar as we set and enforce boundaries that protect us. Unconditional love starts at home, with loving one's Self, for we are the instrument we love with. When we allow ourselves to be hurt, it hurts this instrument and inhibits our being able to do what we're here on this earth to do. Love. -
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Unsu...
Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 2:05 PMI agree Caroleena. I think I've reached a point where despite the way one behaves, it is possible to see the love in their hearts. It is of course, much easier when people engage face to face, and much more difficult over the net. In fact, and I claim my own weakness of it, but when we read someone's online comments, we can often interpret them through our own eyes and feelings, rather than the intention of their words. I know a person who swears a lot, derides others, and when they do, there is no question it is meant in fun... never once did I ever see the recipient misunderstand his style. Have this guy communicate the same way on a blog or chat... would be terribly bad.
Love is so deeply emotional... I am trying to learn how to see love inside of selfishness and derision... for it is there.. it is always there...
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 2:24 PMYes, Caro, you got it! Good job! Thank you!
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 2:22 PMIt means accepting everyone, but not accepting every behavior. There are no limits or conditions for loving someone. -
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Unsu...
Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Sun, June 28, 2009 - 6:13 PMWell said Miss Pixie Styx... that is an excellent distinction. -
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love? There are two levels of engagement
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 4:12 PMRe Miss Pixie:
"It means accepting everyone, but not accepting every behavior. There are no limits or conditions for loving someone. "
This is well said and very helpful, Miss Pixie.
There are many behaviors that are clearly unacceptable, and naively allowing these to proceed brings greater suffering and danger and destruction to others.
At the same time, "all beings have Buddha nature", which means that they always have the potential to become fully aware and responsible and of great benefit to all.
Even Josef Stalin, Adolf Hilter, Mao Tse Tung Pol Pot and so forth always had Buddha nature, and that cannot be taken from them. This is true even though they worked so very hard to murder many millions of civilians and oppressed many millions more.
Just so you know, one of the greatest of all Buddhist saints was originally a black magician. His name was Milarepa, and he used black magic twice: once to bring down destruction on relatives who stole everything from his immediate family, and once to destroy crop lands.
Unfortunately, his black magic really worked and he killed about 37 relatives in a single go. He spent the rest of his life purifying this negative act and developing yogic power to become a great saint. Since he became a full lineqge holder ( of the Kagyu Tibetan lineage ), his karmic purification and Buddha realization count as among the greatest of all Buddhist successes.
I have four tantric empowerments for Milarepa guru yoga. It is said that one such empowerment blocks low ( less than human ) rebirth ) for seven lifetimes.
Please keep in mind that our "enemies" are often our best and most important teachers. They show us our faults and our weaknesses.
For example, the Dalai Lama was asked "who are your most important teachers?"
He answered: "The Chinese. Most of what I learned I learned from the Chinese."
So, we can be thankful that we have enemies and difficulties to spur us on to greater heights, and make sure we keep our noses clean.
I accept that in my life I have enemies and opponents, some of whom are truly dishonest and completely dishonorable, some very destructive. The point is that I learn from them, and that I show them the proper respect.
This is the classical teaching. It is functional and responsible and mature.
Best,
KT
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love? There are two levels of engagement
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 6:02 PMThanks. I know about Buddhist saints. I became a Buddhist at age 14 or 15. Christianity has similar stories. I appreciate your reminder about our enemies being our teachers. I think about that daily, and need to be reminded of it when I forget.
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Unsu...
Re: Are there limits to unconditional love? There are two levels of engagement
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 7:33 PMKT... I truly appreciate your peaceful and clear perspective... only our foes can help us to grow... which in many ways is why a true master challenges us to the core of our being. The teacher loves us... and understands how to help us shed our selfish ways... so that we may truly come to know ourselves... to know love.
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 6:03 PMThank you Horatio. This subject is important to me. -
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Unsu...
Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Tue, June 30, 2009 - 7:25 PMThank you Pixie,
Buddha and Christ nature is within us all. It is our duty to be the nature of truth... unconditional love... so that our words, our hearts, and our actions may be a reflection of the great men and women who have risen above the world of pain, fear and selfishness.
Unconditional love is not just a way of being... it is a duty... for those who cannot see... will live a life of uncertainty. -
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 1:38 AM"Buddha and Christ nature is within us all. It is our duty to be the nature of truth"
I don't believe Buddha or Christ for that matter,reflect absolute truth. They are mirrors of virtue.
Truth, in true naked form, is far removed from the corrupt concepts of mankind.
It is certainly our duty to be the nature of truth. That requires objectivity, which requires removing ones self from the concepts that have been displayed since childhood. Like those of Christ,Buddha and Allah
Truth often entails a revelation that is not so glorious and not so easy to swallow. Uncertainty is a certainty in life,wether we embrace it or not. The world of pain,fear and selfishness is not so necessary to rise above. From that viewpoint, life can truely be understood and truely loved
Pain and rage are absolutely necessary to keep the ball rolling -
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 2:14 AMI am not following a couple of your points. Are you saying pain and rage are necessary to understand and truly love life? If so, I disagree, at least with the rage part. Rage blurs objectivity and inhibits understanding. It is an emotional reaction that clouds our minds. That inhibits understanding rather than promotes it. Equanimity is much more objective than rage. Pain is an integral part of life but I'm not sure it's required to love it. It's impossible to know. Show me anyone who has not experienced pain. But I don't believe that rage is integral to either loving or understanding life. In fact, I would suggest that it interferes with both.
Also, are you saying we should not rise above selfishness? That that viewpoint is where life can truly be understood and truly loved? If so, I disagree with that as well. Perhaps you aren't saying that though. Can you explain what you mean by that?
Finally, the topic being discussed is, "Are there limits to unconditional love?" What are your thougts on that? -
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Sun, July 12, 2009 - 7:52 PMPain and rage,as a result thereof, are much like the seasoning of a filet mignon. If you cook the select filet on the grill to a nice pink in the middle it is still going to be very tasty. However, marinating it over night in a blend of garlic salt,worcestershire and a touch of natures' seasoning and then lightly covering it with ground peppercorn before its grilled you end up with a much more savory experience when its all said and done. Experiencing pain and rage isn't sweet or flavorful, but in the longrun as you grow........life is richer because of it.
"Blind" rage blurs objectivity and inhibits understanding. All rage is not blind. Thats like saying Love is an emotional reaction that clouds our judgement and reasoning,when in fact loving someone or something "blindly" inhibits such things
Pain and rage are necessary for equanimity very often. They are balancing forces
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Thu, July 16, 2009 - 7:30 PMWhen it interferes with your own well-being then yes that is the limit. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Fri, July 17, 2009 - 2:47 AMInteresting Justin... how love interfere with our own well being?
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Fri, August 28, 2009 - 8:24 AMWell said. I think it's entirely possible to love someone while having to tolerate some of their choices. In some cases, you can tolerate a situation until it's acceptable; there might be limits to how much you can tolerate or limits to understanding yet still the possibility for feeling love for another person.
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Fri, July 17, 2009 - 7:20 AMWhats true for me is that unconditional love is not practiced in a relationship. We put a lot of conditions, one of them is that you will stay with me to raise these children, you wont go off with another partner and neglect our family responsibilities, you wont put our family in harm by bad behavior.
The unconditional in a relationship is that we dont focus on those things, we assume the partner will be loyal to the family. If we focus on jelousy and fear that those condition will be betrayed, then we get betrayal sometimes. And it has a way of eating you up inside the fear... The unconditional is that we limit our judgement, we forgive failure, and we say family is forever and no body gets left behind or forgotten, but the condition are simply assumed that if you betray the family, you hurt us all.
We choose to be unconditional, we attempt to not judge others lest we be judged, we focus on forgiveness because its more about us then the person we have been hurt from, its about not focusing on negative things.
Its not that I can be unconditional, its that I attempt to be unconditional as much as possible.
The thing is unconditional love is not automatic, I must recreate it every moment of every day.
Its like how I treat integrity, about being my word, its not automatic. I have to create it, I have to speak it, I have to share who I am being, I have to choose to be it. -
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Fri, July 17, 2009 - 7:41 AMthank you Moki -
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Sun, July 19, 2009 - 1:11 AMI like the old saying, you can either be right or have a relationship.
good point, unconditional love is god, and possible if were smart, unconditional love of self.
the relationship is about family, it has conditions, but there is an underling if you just value and love our family, you will be loved, and never forgotten or left behind.
A lot of it has to do with fear based problems that we make worse, but thats a whole other can of worms for another thread...
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Unsu...
Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Fri, July 17, 2009 - 4:26 PMGreat post Moki, thank you....
Methinks as soon as anyone chooses fear... they have chosen not to love... for love and fear are the only two fundamental emotions that all feelings are derived from.
If we choose fear, we manifest fear and distrust. If we choose love... we cause others to consider their own actions... and if they continue with irresponsible behavior... then they cannot be trusted...
But does that mean we should stop loving? I'd get rid of people I cannot trust... even family.. but I would not stop emoting love... -
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Fri, July 17, 2009 - 9:04 PMUnconditional love is basically God, so no there are no limits to it. People have limits, some more than others. But unconditional unlimited love is god is what we are made of .
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Sat, July 18, 2009 - 2:23 AMIts not that I can be unconditional, its that I attempt to
be unconditional as much as possible.
Truth, in true naked form, is far removed from the
corrupt concepts of mankind.
They show us our faults and our weaknesses.
Unconditional love is basically God, so no there are no limits to it.
People have limits, some more than others.
But unconditional unlimited love is god is what we are made of...
I think unconditional love means loving
without reservation, conditions or limits -
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Re: Are there limits to unconditional love?
Thu, July 23, 2009 - 5:20 PM>"Interesting Justin... how love interfere with our own well being?"
One example is giving ones money for charity.
If you only have $5 and you give it away and cannot afford to eat out of feeling unconditional love for someone else then that will interfere with your own well being.
As a human being in possession of a "meat suit" your body has needs and you need to meet them although your love might be as large as the universe.
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