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this is for everyone as i have loved you all and have enjoyed your threads since i have joined tribe, our lord is here among us today. his flesh is not what is important however, but rather that we further our relationship with him by adding ourselves to his divine will.
our father is against any and all killing, as i have mentioned before. as christians we have an obligation to speak out against war. war is killing plain and simple. jesus christ told us to turn the other cheek and love even our enemies. if we would desire to have a more compleat union with him, we would give up the eating of the flesh as being a vegetarian means that we honor and respect all of our fathers creation. by being a vegan, we give freedom to all of creation. (i'm working on this second part myself)
there are two other entrapments of the soul and these are lust and greed. when we lust after our sisters and brothers, we are not celebrating the spiritual union but debase such sacred sacraments to fleshy, carnal trips. when we take more than we need and do not share when others are in need, this indeed is greed. both lust and greed are never satiated and will end in spiritual death if not turned from. ultimately lust and greed are killing as well, either spiritually or physically.
our father is calling all his sheep home and it is time that we overcome all of the things of this world to make ourselves fit to be reunited with him once again.
there is more that i would like to share with you all. our relationship with our big brother jesus and our heavenly father (really one and the same) is if it is and isn't if it isn't. in other words no amount of talking about it is going to make it any more real for us. our father is our first love and as we chose to walk away from our first love, we must also choose to embrace him again. would it not be terrible if we were to say "father, father, look at all the things that i have done in your name" and he would shoo us away saying "you never asked me to dance"? this is another way of saying it of course but i put it this way to remind everyone that our relationship is also a romance of the highest. his language of course is love, the love for him and the love for all of our brethren.
jesus called for us all to give 100%. he didn't call for anything short of this. now this degree of surrender is difficult as everything we are taught is against it, but we must remember that he is always there to help us along if we call on him. what he requires is acts of faith (such as becoming vegetarian for god and peace on earth) and he also requires us to be charitable and of good will. if we do these things, we please him that gave us life, and he is able to lead us farther down the path to ultimate surrender.
i will be going out for a few weeks witnessing to my brethren and sharing the love of our father so i will get back to you all as soon as i return.
the love and peace of our lord jesus christ be will you all,
david
our father is against any and all killing, as i have mentioned before. as christians we have an obligation to speak out against war. war is killing plain and simple. jesus christ told us to turn the other cheek and love even our enemies. if we would desire to have a more compleat union with him, we would give up the eating of the flesh as being a vegetarian means that we honor and respect all of our fathers creation. by being a vegan, we give freedom to all of creation. (i'm working on this second part myself)
there are two other entrapments of the soul and these are lust and greed. when we lust after our sisters and brothers, we are not celebrating the spiritual union but debase such sacred sacraments to fleshy, carnal trips. when we take more than we need and do not share when others are in need, this indeed is greed. both lust and greed are never satiated and will end in spiritual death if not turned from. ultimately lust and greed are killing as well, either spiritually or physically.
our father is calling all his sheep home and it is time that we overcome all of the things of this world to make ourselves fit to be reunited with him once again.
there is more that i would like to share with you all. our relationship with our big brother jesus and our heavenly father (really one and the same) is if it is and isn't if it isn't. in other words no amount of talking about it is going to make it any more real for us. our father is our first love and as we chose to walk away from our first love, we must also choose to embrace him again. would it not be terrible if we were to say "father, father, look at all the things that i have done in your name" and he would shoo us away saying "you never asked me to dance"? this is another way of saying it of course but i put it this way to remind everyone that our relationship is also a romance of the highest. his language of course is love, the love for him and the love for all of our brethren.
jesus called for us all to give 100%. he didn't call for anything short of this. now this degree of surrender is difficult as everything we are taught is against it, but we must remember that he is always there to help us along if we call on him. what he requires is acts of faith (such as becoming vegetarian for god and peace on earth) and he also requires us to be charitable and of good will. if we do these things, we please him that gave us life, and he is able to lead us farther down the path to ultimate surrender.
i will be going out for a few weeks witnessing to my brethren and sharing the love of our father so i will get back to you all as soon as i return.
the love and peace of our lord jesus christ be will you all,
david
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Unsu...
Re: Christ is Back
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 12:13 AMJust saw your post from the front page, and decided to join. I have not joined any other Christian tribes.
I like your idea of going vegan, but I think it is somewhat unfeasible right now for many. Especially those that live in inner city type environments.
I do not understand why it is that many Christians believe that Jesus Christ and God are the same being, but I could try to explicate why it is that this idea has come about. First off, did not the Trinity contain three different aspects of God? I understand that these are supposed to be unified, but I have difficulty believing they are unified in the one body of Jesus Christ, for esoteric reasons. I have studied the Kabbalah for some good time, and I could relate to you how it views these questions.
I am interested in understanding what it is you say about Jesus been returned physically.
I agree that killing and warfare should end.
So... if you will allow me... The Tree of Life, Otz Chiim (here's one from someone's profile, but there are various tribes dedicated that have similar images):
people.tribe.net/famousofd...1ed4a36164
The circles are called the sephiroth (emanations). These are realms of being. Each circle has four components. At the innermost is the Hebrew God-name, surrounding that is the archangelic name, then the angelic order, then what is called the mundane chakra or planetary equivalent. There are various arguments about these attributions. All the same, this is basically how it goes.
You mentioned Lust and Greed. The list of vices (equatable to 'sins') begins with Greed. Aside from Lust and Greed, the rest of them (similar to the idea of the Seven Deadly Sins:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins) are Dishonesty, Cruelty and Destruction (similar or the same in effect as Wrath or Anger), Pride, rulership vices like Tyranny, Gluttony (ruling caste taking everything for itself), Bigotry, Hypocrisy; Cowardice, Idleness (Sloth?), and Inertia, or unwillingness to change. There are virutes also, and each of these vices and virtues are ties to specific sephirah (singular Hebrew for sephiroth, emanations).
These sephiroth of the Tree of Life affect us collectively in some degree due to the fact that it is said that God created us "after his image". What that comes down to meaning is rather recondite.
Just wanted to contribute.
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Re: Christ is Back
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 9:50 AMHey Cosmic,
Welcome to CU.
From what I have learned of David he lives a simple lifestyle and may be out for some time, depending on how the Wind blows him.
In any case, you stated
<I am interested in understanding what it is you say about Jesus been returned physically.>
What David wrote was:
"our lord is here among us today. his flesh is not what is important however, but rather that we further our relationship with him by adding ourselves to his divine will."
David will need to clarify his meaning, but I don't understand him to have been making a reference to the physical.
The timing of your joining here is interesting. Previously there has been little discussion here of metaphysics. Perhaps that time has come. -
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Re: Christ is Back
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 10:08 AM<David will need to clarify his meaning, but I don't understand him to have been making a reference to the physical.
The timing of your joining here is interesting. Previously there has been little discussion here of metaphysics. Perhaps that time has come>
This is good discussion, just what to expect Jesus to be. According to john it is of the antichrist to see Christ as having come in the spirit and not in the flesh:
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Jesus himself however suggest that in his day he shall be like the lightening in the sky instantly known to all, this strongly implies spirit:
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. -
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Re: Christ is Back
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 10:29 AMJohn wrote that the Word/Logos became flesh and dwelt among us manifesting his glory (John 1:14)
And he also wrote that it was the prayer of the Jesus that those who came after would be one with the Father as he was one with the Father and share in their glory (John 17:20-24)
Also, after the ascension Paul experienced Christ on the Road to Damascus
I believe the experience of Paul and of oneness is available Today
and this is how I understand David's words
"Christ is Back" -
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Re: Christ is Back
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 10:31 AMHeh, I'm all out of stones to throw anyway :)
I was a little taken back by the post title at first though :)
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Re: Christ is Back
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 5:41 PM<John wrote that the Word/Logos became flesh and dwelt among us manifesting his glory (John 1:14)
And he also wrote that it was the prayer of the Jesus that those who came after would be one with the Father as he was one with the Father and share in their glory (John 17:20-24)
Also, after the ascension Paul experienced Christ on the Road to Damascus
I believe the experience of Paul and of oneness is available Today
and this is how I understand David's words
"Christ is Back">
This is the secret that is not a secret it is known to those that have experienced it, Jesus never left he is here with us now,always has been, in the last days this shall be revealled to all. -
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Unsu...
Re: Christ is Back
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 6:49 PMWhy does there need to be any 'last days'? Merely because it was prophecied, or because humanity is lax, and has collectively (though for the most part ignorantly) worked itself into a situation where we are systematically destroying the natural environment around us?
I think that much of the Biblical prophecy details the idea that Jesus or God want the world destroyed in an act of Wrath (one of the Seven Deadly Sins), when in truth it was merely mystics looking forward to environmental devastation, or possibly nuclear war. There are various instances of this type of prophecy, some originating in Egypt during the Old Kingdom.
In essence, I am asking, is humanity responsible for the destruction of this planet, or shall we blame it on God or Jesus, and their wrath because of our evil?
I think the rationalist would say we are doing it, we are ultimately responsible, and God doesn't want us to destroy it, we were told to preserve and husband it in the Torah, the Old Testament. I doubt any spiritual agency will ever 'come down' to end humanity's bad shepherding work, or end our lives here. We will just have to whether the storm, and hope that we grow up sufficiently as a race to crawl out of barbarism and superstition.
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Unsu...
Re: Christ is Back
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 7:07 PMI was thinking of this:
I found something interesting in Zecharia Sitchin’s most recent book,
“The End Of Days, Armageddon and Prophecies of Return”:
“Those ideal times, Ipu-Wer stated in his prophecy, will be preceded
by their own messianic birth pangs: “Confusion will set throughout
the land, in tumultuous noise one will kill the other, the many will kill
the few.” People will ask: “Does the Shepherd desire death? No, he
answered, “it is the land that commands death,” but after years of strife,
righteousness and proper worship will prevail. This, the papyrus concluded,
was “What Ipu-Wer said when he responded to the majesty of the All-Lord.
“If not just the description of events and the messianic prophecies, but also
the choice of wording in that ancient Egyptian papyrus seem astounding,
there is more to come. Scholars are aware of the existence of another
prophetic/messianic text that reached us from ancient Egypt, but believe
that it was really composed after the events and only pretends to be prophetic
by dating itself to an earlier time. To be specific, while the text purports to
relate prophecies made at the time of Sneferu, a Fourth Dynasty pharaoh
(circa 2600 B.C.E.), Egyptologists believe that it was actually written in
the time of Amenemhet I of the Twelfth Dynasty (circa 2000 B.C.E.) ---
after the events that it pretends to prophecy. Even so, the “prophecies”
serve to confirm those prior occurrences; and many details and the very
wording of the predictions can best be described as chilling.
The prophecies are purported to be told to King Sneferu by a “great seer-priest”
named Nefer-Rohu, “a man of rank, a scribe competent with his fingers.”
summoned to the king to foretell the future, Nefer-Rohu “stretched forth his hand
for the box of writing equipment, he drew forth a scroll of papyrus,” and then began
to write what he was envisioning, in a Nostradamus-like manner:
Behold, there is something about which men speak;
It is terrifying. . .
What will be done was never done before.
The Earth is completely perished.
The land is damaged, no remainder exists.
There is no sunshine that people could see,
No one can live with the covering clouds,
The south wind opposes the north wind.
The rivers of Egypt are empty. . .
Ra must begin the foundations of the Earth again.
========================================
I posted that some months earlier in another tribe. I'm pretty sure it is a valid example of end-of-the-world prophecy, only Egyptian.
Sitchin likely got it from a real source. I would have to retrieve the book and check the bibliography...
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last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 7:14 PMCosmic,
<Why does there need to be any 'last days'?>
It depends on your understanding of last days and understanding of the flood of Noah. The water did not destroy the planet or all life on it. Neither will the fire.
increasing entropy is called the second law of thermodynamics -
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 7:24 PMOn a world level, or on a universe-wide scale. Scientists maintain that the universe appears to have had a Big Bang (reference COBE radiation uniformity), and that it will continue to exist for trillions of years, if not forever.
Humanity will likely get off this rock, if only after massive devastation.
Otherwise, we would be looking for some agency, spiritual or otherwise, to create this place over again, so we could do the very same thing once again. How many times could humanity repeat this?
This is why we will receive no help, nor will there be any sort of armageddon involving angels, Jesus, or God.
Humanity has some hard lessons to learn, if it is to survive. Otherwise, this human form ceases to exist, forever.
This is how I look at it. If we are so divisive we intend to destroy ourselves and blame spiritual agencies, the will disown us. Simple as that. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 7:41 PMCosmic,
<Otherwise, this human form ceases to exist, forever.>
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. -
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 7:44 PMWe go to heaven when we die (if one wishes), heaven does not descend to earth. This idea arises because people are unwilling to give up earthly existence.
Jesus did, and he has not come back in 2000 years. Doesn't that tell you something? -
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Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 7:51 PMCosmic,
<heaven does not descend to earth.>
This is correct. Heavenly Jerusalem descends to earth out of heaven.
<Jesus did, and he has not come back in 2000 years.>
Have you been following the conversation?
And if you understand that the universe will exist for trillions of years, what's the hurry?
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 8:01 PMThat's just it: why don't we try to unify across national and ethnic boundaries, and get something done as a unified humanity? It is within our power to eventually get such done.
Also, many incidents in the past are clouded by superstition. Natural events can be seen behind so many disasters spoken of with fearful superstitious trepidation in the past. Did God occasion these events, or were they random?
Take the flood for instance. The Biblical interpretation is that God insisted on it. I think it was a natural event. In fact, modern day science is striving to prove this:
www.asa3.org/aSA/PSCF/20...-03Seely.pdf
Here's one that, somewhere within the language, seems to imply something different:
www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v1...re.asp
All the same, the standardized evidence points to an earth that has existed for 4.6 billion years.
I'll tend to go with the scientists. -
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Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 8:27 PMCosmic,
<Did God occasion these events, or were they random?... The Biblical interpretation is that God insisted on it. I think it was a natural event.>
<Many esotericists believe that angelic presence *is* the underlying substratum of this physical existence.>
I think we would agree that God is not some old man with a beard and angels are not humans with wings :)
This is the metaphysics conversation.
And these things are not random.
In any case, the Bible does not claim that physical humanity is the only form of life, or the highest form, neither did mankind come first.
<why don't we try to unify across national and ethnic boundaries, and get something done as a unified humanity?>
This is the message of the NT. Oneness in Christ.
That this message was perverted through Constantine (and others) is another subject; a different thread.
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 9:15 PMinteresting question. Was the asteroid that hit the Yucatan 65 million years ago, allowing for the rise of the mammals, a random event, or not?
The Bible doesn't really speak about other, extrasolar life forms either. I think we are only now getting enough perspective to imagine their existences persuasively. Universe is big enough, and space travel hard enough, that we will likely not meet any for a very long time. Chances are... -
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Asteroids
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 8:06 AMCosmic,
<Was the asteroid that hit the Yucatan 65 million years ago>
I believe the universe and planet earth are older than 6,000 years. But as far as specific dates go, I have problems with age claims based on assumptions like Potassium 40 has a half life of 1.3 billion years. That's speculation, not a scientific fact. Certain things are unknowable.
I don't know how old the earth is, and I don't believe it can be known. A "yom" translated "day" is an unspecified amount of time.
Who knows what caused the Yucatan crater. Maybe it's where an angel struck the earth when they were cast down out of heaven ; )
Apparently there is debate concerning whether the Chicxulub impactor was one of several that may have struck the earth at around the same time.
<allowing for the rise of the mammals>
More speculation. If you have a belief that is fine.
But let's not confuse our beliefs with facts. -
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Unsu...
Re: Asteroids
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 1:14 PMThis is obviously not the place to discuss paleontology or acheology or fossils. I concede moot point with this group over this.
I've read far too much science, I cannot be persuaded to believe as you do.
Fallen angels are my especiality.
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Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 8:40 PMCosmic,
<In fact, modern day science is striving to prove this:
www.asa3.org/aSA/PSCF/20...-03Seely.pdf>
As you seem to have some understanding of Hebrew:
An "eretz" is not the planet/globe. It is a land/region, as in Eretz Israel
As i read it:
Genesis 2 describes and names at least four eretz
Genesis 5 tells that one was flooded -
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 9:17 PMThere are various worlds posited in some strains of Kabbalah, but for the most part, they are seen as human, or humanoid.
I wanna go meet real aliens, inspect strange alien worlds. -
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Re: last days?
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 8:08 AMCosmic,
<There are various worlds posited in some strains of Kabbalah, but for the most part, they are seen as human, or humanoid.>
Perhaps this is because the purpose of Kabbalah is to bring the Creator down into the mundane of the human world. -
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 1:12 PM"Perhaps this is because the purpose of Kabbalah is to bring the Creator down into the mundane of the human world."
Not physically. The Creator (Yahweh, YHVH) isn't physical. At all. Neither is Elohim.
Jesus was physical (in our manner), but I doubt he will ever be physical here in like manner again.
Keep him in your hearts. Follow his principles. That's what he wanted. -
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Re: last days?
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 1:55 PMCosmic,
I'm having a hard time following as you keep jumping subjects.
Is there a specific point you would like to discuss? -
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Rationality
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 4:11 PMCosmic,
<Fallen angels are my especiality.>
In the context of rationality:
How does one distinguish a fallen angel from other kinds? -
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Re: Rationality
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 4:16 PMCosmic,
<I've read far too much science, I cannot be persuaded to believe as you do. >
I'm not trying to persuade you to believe anything. Just trying to understand the rational basis for your beliefs.
Really.
Do you know who observed what to determine the 1.3 billion year K40 half-life?
If not, why do you believe the number is correct? -
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Unsu...
Re: Rationality
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 5:25 PMYou are making an assumption I even want to argue that point with you. I expressed no interest in that Potassium isotope.
I am somewhat familiar with the stomic model. If I go back to college, I will likely get a double major in physics and chemistry.
You also made the assumption I had a pre-formed opinion. I don't. You say "why do you believe the number is correct"..
Where did I say anything of the sort? Point it out to me. Prior to this ost, you have been the only one to remark about it.
If you think the scientific method doesn't work, I hope your microwave goes on the fritz. -
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Re: Rationality
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 8:52 PMCosmic,
<If you think the scientific method doesn't work, I hope your microwave goes on the fritz.>
If you want to play that game...
Who said I have a microwave?
Plus where did I say I think the scientific method doesn't work? ; )
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Unsu...
Re: Rationality
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 8:57 PMI intended that as a minor joke.
If you think that current scientific reasoning about radioactive isotopes is untrustworthy, how can you trust a simple microwave appliance?
The various fields of science come before several types of review. There are nefarious elements, as there are in any sort of work, and those who falsify their research are inevitably found out, if the type of experiment they performed is replicatable. If it isn't liable to additional testing of the main hypothesis, it fails as consensus-reviewed science. It's that simple.
Do you have a car? Do you have a watch? Do you use batteries? Etc. etc. etc. -
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Unsu...
Re: Rationality
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 8:59 PMI believe the contention in question has to do with the half-life you offered up.
What did you wish to prove by examining it? -
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Re: Rationality
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 9:26 PM<What did you wish to prove by examining it?>
The belief that the earth is billions of years old is as much a matter of faith or reliance on authority as the belief that the earth is a few thousand years old. This is very different than understanding how does a battery or an automobile engine works.
In Haiti there is a rock that you can strike to make fire. It was asked why does the rock make fire. The farmers said it makes fire because it's a shiny black rock, and shiny black rocks make fire. No need to make speculative claims about geological formations billions of years ago. -
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Unsu...
Re: Rationality
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 3:06 PM"The belief that the earth is billions of years old is as much a matter of faith or reliance on authority as the belief that the earth is a few thousand years old."
Okay, let me go one further, and include some solipsism: The earth did not exist prior to my gaining self-apprehension circa 1973, as a newly sentient being. I was three then. See where I'm going? Take that as far as you like. In fact, when I'm not looking at or discussing with you, you don't exist to me... Got it?
I'd like to watch a vid about that rock. Gotta link to that? -
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Re: Rationality
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 9:13 PMCosmic,
<Okay, let me go one further, and include some solipsism.. In fact, when I'm not looking at or discussing with you, you don't exist to me... Got it?>
In solipsism, the earth does not exist and I do not exist outside of your mind, even after age three and even when you read my posts.
But I exist every time you think about me! ; )
No Haitian video, sorry. To be clear, it was a rock used to spark a fire. It was part of a conversation I had in Haiti, years ago, with an agricultural missionary. He found Haitian reasoning frustrating. Couldn't understand that what the farmers had was true scientific method. He wanted to be the authority, because he'd come to help them, without actually doing the work.
In the end, he did the work, and he learned a lot. He taught the farmers a few things as well.
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Unsu...
Re: Rationality
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 9:18 PMThe Dogon in Africa knew about the Sirius triple star system before modern scientists did.
Lots of strange stuff here.
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Re: Rationality
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 10:01 PMEnoch, talks about how civilizations learned of solar systems from spiritual travel. Enoch revealed much! -
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Unsu...
Re: Rationality
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 10:54 PMThat's a good book, though scary. It's actually quite a jumble. What if some portion of God hightailed it with some of those people?
Vimanas, merkabas, actual UFO's or metaphysical vehicles?
I don't think we'll know until they decide to fully appear over our cities.
I had seen one report that they have been sighted near missile silos.
Maybe they will stop the nuclear launch. That would be nice.
Now concentrate... reach out to yourmammalian friends mentally: tell them to enter the rockets on a suicide mission, the whole world over.
They are to chew away at the wiring, the detonation wiring. If no aperture exists large enough, tell the insects to do it.
It's good for them too! Helps them to survive our lunacy also! -
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Re: Rationality
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 11:01 PMthey have been appearing over cities.
youtube brings up hundreds of different vids, it's either government crap, or the nephliem. -
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Unsu...
Re: Rationality
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 11:46 PMI don't much care. Better not disturb me if they have bad intentions, I'll kick their ass.
I always find it funny how abductees say they were paralyzed, couldn't move, experienced lost time.
Must have weak minds. Actually most of that I find to be the imaginations of a bunch of paint-huffers.
It doesn't make much sense. A lot of people live in dream worlds. Consensus reality is haphazard for them.
If your perception is strong-willed enough, you can rule your quantum reality somewhat.
I just can't see some spindly grey waving a wand, or putting a little light on me, and me freezing up.
I'd likely bitch because of the light, then I'd wring his neck for being so impolite with the light.
I've seen some strange lights in the sky, but they were more like faint stars moving in ways they shouldn't.
And not satellites either. You can follow them; they're faint, but zip along in a line.
What's really strange is the mutilated steer; I think our own government does that for fear effect, possibly using helicopters.
Cia has a strange sense of humor. If not, why would these aliens be doing these things to these organisms, and why carve out some cows anus and reproductive system? Those are some perverted aliens. Ever play that Playstation game Rogue Trip? (It's a good one) There's a secret character, a frey in a UFO, which you can drive. Says he likes to do donut holes on ranches and perform lapriscopic surgery on cattle, or something. Wish I could find it... -
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Re: Rationality
Fri, September 4, 2009 - 4:26 AMcan rule somewhat.
prayer has been the only thing that gets through... having so much mass and flesh seems to get in the way of controlling the 'quantum' vrs things that have no such hassle such as flesh.... and have lived for 1,000s of years in that state...
It's not a mental race, so much as it is a spiritual force larger than a human. -
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Unsu...
Re: Rationality
Fri, September 4, 2009 - 4:46 AMYou can make yourself stronger in other ways, besides prayer.
Think Joshua. -
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Re: Rationality
Fri, September 4, 2009 - 10:26 AMYou can make yourself stronger in other ways, besides prayer.
Think Joshua.
I'm not arguing that, but why swing your spiritual muscles when all you need to do is open the door and call the lightning down?
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Re: Rationality
Fri, September 4, 2009 - 10:11 AMCosmic,
<The Dogon in Africa knew about the Sirius triple star system before modern scientists did.>
It is said the layout of Pyramids of Giza represents the stars called Orion's Belt (which points to Sirius).
Interesting images from the Temple of Osiris in Abydos.
www.crystalinks.com/hieroplanes.jpg
Four aircraft in one panel. A coincidence?
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Unsu...
Re: Rationality
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 5:38 PM"Fallen angels are my especiality.>
In the context of rationality:
How does one distinguish a fallen angel from other kinds?"
One that is so heartbroken it will not re-ascend; if this is possible.
I don't even believe they exist here any longer.
The Bible states that they interbred with normal humans, whatever that means.
That's the only way they exist here any longer. Within us.
Since they were spiritual in nature, those arguments pertaining to their existence are spiritual.
This is the world of Assiah (material). The angels fell from the world of Yetzirah (formative, firmament).
There is a reason for keeping a strictly rational viewpoint.
It says that the angels fell because of Lust. This could only be partially true. Dishonesty is also involved.
To my mind, the sehiroth involved: (using the standard division of Kabbalistic worlds into the four, Atziluth, Beriah, Yetzirah, and Assiah (no one fell from Assiah, no where to fall to)) these angels likely fell predominantly from Netzach and Hod in Yetzirah. Lust and Lies (Dishonesty). It is possible that other levels were involved, but I feel very sure those two I mentioned are. And there is a reason why. It's why there is so much discussion over sexual faults throughout the Bible. Yesod. Some kind of combining went wrong there, on some level. That's the way it looks to me, but there are many ways of looking at it. But why were the Nephilim said to be the fallen pagan gods whom Abraham discouraged the worship of? Because they may have been here physically. Which would mean they skipped Yesod. It's an idea, at least. That, or something went wrong there. But all this contention over sexuality directly indicates Yesod.
So the idea being that to assert they are here is a crutch. There is no reason to fear them, or their existence here.
The Banking interests known popularly as the "illuminati' is a different concern. They are long-lineaged families totally corrupted by greed.
Some researchers of whatever reputation say that these sorts date themselves back to the Nephilim. It wouldn't matter. -
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Unsu...
Re: Rationality
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 5:48 PMSorry about the typos. I rarely bother to scan back and search them out. I'm pretty certain most posters on tribe are readable with occasional typos.
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Re: Nephilim / the Fallen
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 6:50 AMCosmic: <So the idea being that to assert they are here is a crutch. There is no reason to fear them, or their existence here. >
If "them" is the fallen - the Nephilim - then Scripture agrees with Cosmic that they are no longer here - they perished in the flood. That in fact was one of the primary purposes of the flood.
But, the Nephilim no longer being around is different than whether certain others can be possessed (occurred during Jesus' day) or whether others can sense the angels (good or bad) around us.
Now, here is something that is purely my belief. The fall of the angels (Satan's lot) that is supposed to have already happened is a reference in Scripture to a future event that occurs at the end times. Job describes how Satan comes and goes from the presence of Elohim. At the time, Satan is already the deceiver and the evil one. But he is still an angel. In Revelation it describes how the dragon will be full of wrath and destruction when he is thrown out of heaven. To me, this is what the time of Jacob's Trouble is; the wrath of the dragon at being expelled.
Why is this important? Because, as it says in Job, none of the "evil" angels can do anything unless Elohim gives them leave to do so. Everything that happens is the will of Elohim, and is a test of how we will react and what we will do. Will we praise and trust Elohim, or will we curse? -
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Re: Nephilim / the Fallen
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 7:56 AMI'm not clear on the basis for the claim that Nephilim no longer exist. Genesis explains that they were present "in those days, and also afterward"
Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
The spies reported their presence in Canaan:
Numbers 13:33 "There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."
Also, if the sons of God coming into the daughters of men is how Nephilim are born, does anyone know a reason why this cannot happen today?
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Re: Nephilim / the Fallen
Fri, September 4, 2009 - 10:47 AMRe: Nephilim / the Fallen
I'm not clear on the basis for the claim that Nephilim no longer exist. Genesis explains that they were present "in those days, and also afterward"
Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
The spies reported their presence in Canaan:
Numbers 13:33 "There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."
Lets just apply some simple logic here. For those of us that actually have read the Word, we know that the lake of fire, 'hell' does not exist, or is not used, until after the judgment day. They were cursed the world over, and destroyed almost completely by the flood. The fact that there were still some that david was sent to kill afterwords goes to show that the entire earth was not covered. ..... unless you think giants can back float for over 2 months. When they were killed they were obviously cursed by YHWH, so they wouldn't be up in His realm. Since they wouldn't be burning yet, those that have not been bound by the likes of you or i or those that have gone on before us, still roam the earth. The 1/3 of the angels taken, had their forces bolstered by the ranks of these 'souls'(?) Who knows if that mattered much? They wander the dry places, the places that lack the living water, they are shadows to our reality... but they still affect it.
sometimes we call them aliens. -
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Re: Nephilim / the Fallen
Fri, September 4, 2009 - 1:31 PMJason,
<unless you think giants can back float for over 2 months.>
According to the Jewish tradition called Midrash, the giant Og survived the flood because he was permitted to cling to the outside of Noah's ark. -
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Fallen
Fri, September 4, 2009 - 1:37 PMCosmic,
What do you mean by "fallen"?
Of his wife, Adam said she was bone of his bones and flesh of his flesh. Do you believe in the "fall" of Adam?
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Re: Nephilim / the Fallen
Fri, September 4, 2009 - 3:15 PMand one giant made more?
and clung for how long?
just questions I'd ask at first, many mythos, or cultures have a flood story, the oldest ones the world round... but even enoch talked about how those cultures were crafted and created by these... giants and their fathers.
it's like watching the film as it's being produced from just off set, instead of watching it in old recordings that we have today...
many mythos as old as the flood and older were all 'on set' or on 'stage' of the demons ploys.
take the Anunnaki for instance.
anyone who knows the real deal behind the Christ story, can quickly look at them having seen Enoch imput and be like wow... poor Sumerians. -
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Re: Nephilim / the Fallen
Fri, September 4, 2009 - 8:12 PMJason,
I have a book on Midrash that only reflects one Og story. Apparently there are others concerning how he survived the flood.
In any case, here's a link to Wikipedia article on Og
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Og
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Unsu...
Re: Nephilim / the Fallen
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 3:13 PMSatan is a representation of the Qliphoth. Satan is a shadow. A Scapegoat for our actions. Unless you want to state he is really personified. Then you have to detail why his existence is so, down the ages, as to all beings reference that are like him. He was the Adversary to begin with, not just evil. In Job, he does God's dirty work. But here's the key thing: In Job, both God and Satan seem to be personified. I find that troubling.
"Job describes how Satan comes and goes from the presence of Elohim."
Does it actually say this? I don't remember Elohim being mentioned in Job. Swaddling darkness, and such..
So, you seem to prefer Elohim to YHVH. Yahweh is supposed to be pre-eminent to Elohim, in one sense. Actually, the real trinity of God (which doesn't truly include Jesus as part) is Eheieh-YHVH-Elohim. That's God's Private Idaho. -
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Re: Nephilim / the Fallen
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 6:23 PM<So, you seem to prefer Elohim to YHVH>
Actually, from reading Exodus 3 - I've always believed YHVH to be God's name, whilst Elohim is his position/title/being. I will use either, but you seemed to favour Elohim - so I used it.
I agree that man way too often uses Satan as a scapegoat. As I've already stated recently, man is responsible for his own actions. This must first be accepted before one can repent of his actions and turn to God.
That said, I do actually believe that there is an entity that we know as Satan. And he fulfills a role until the appointed time.
<Does it actually say this?>
Job 1:6-12. The bene elohim came before YHVH, and Satan was among them. Satan goes on about how Job will not curse Elohim because he (YHVH) had put a hedge of protection around Job.
So in Exodus 3, YHVH says that he is Elohim. In Job 1, Satan comes before YHVH to get Job to curse Elohim.
<In Job, both God and Satan seem to be personified. I find that troubling.>
Isn't Job a book of poetry - old, but poetry. Why would it be troubling for them both to be personified in poetry? It seems sort of natural for the style of writing. -
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Unsu...
Re: Nephilim / the Fallen
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 9:17 PMI don't favor Elohim, at all. The problem here is practically everyone thinks they're separated. It's rank foolishness. It's a combined trinity. I just mentioned it. Eheieh--YHVH-- Elohim. Guess what I said, without looking? Jesus isn't included! He never could be! He is a created being, just like all of us. God is self-created. BIG DIFFERENCE. Never try to usurp God's position. You're damned if you do.
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Re: Nephilim / the Fallen
Sat, September 5, 2009 - 8:12 AMHere is an interesting post on the Canaanite religion (I believe much from Ugarit). I post this, because this is what can be seen in the book of Job and actually through much of the Scriptures. Maybe it sheds some light. Given the descriptions, it sounds like "Satan" would be closely identified with Yam.
home.comcast.net/~chris.s/...e-faq.html
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Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 7:54 PMCosmic,
<This idea arises because people are unwilling to give up earthly existence.>
1 Corinthians 15:35 But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. -
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 8:12 PM"42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body."
I agree: a spiritual body. Not putting flesh back on the same bones. It is likely that when people die and go to heaven, they experience a physicality very much akin to what we experience here. After all, there really is no Newtonian understanding on true physicality these days, when you touch something, all that occurs is the rustle of electrons echanging charges. It's all quantum. Atoms are almost entirely empty space. We are barely physical at all, once you peek beneath the surface of reality.
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Re: last days?
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 3:28 PMI'm sorry, but this is cracking me up.
>>We go to heaven when we die (if one wishes), heaven does not descend to earth. This idea arises because people are unwilling to give up >>earthly existence.
>>Jesus did, and he has not come back in 2000 years. Doesn't that tell you something?
If you cut through all the hype of all the idiots.
Then there are six signs of His coming that have to happen at the same time. And a few that happen right before those six.
There has to be an accepted world governance. that destroys lives under guise of helping them - the U.N.
The jewish homeland has to bear it's fruit.
The third temple has to be placed on the temple mount - the temple mount institute has already rebuild the thing in the past few years, and is just waiting for the political situation to move it there.
There has to be a cashless system, AND ONE that allows for a mark of the beast with the numbers 666. - UPC codes gave way for the 666 to be used in inventory number ID, and the RFID uses that UPC code standard E type, in it's human cataloging. Chips with 3 sixes in addition to a national ID number exist today, for the first time.... ever.
There has to be a war in the middle east that starts by 250k 'over confident' troops that storm up along the river Euphrates, and spins out of control. Anyone remember the troop count we sent up that river?
There has to be a 200 million man army - if china goes to war they field that many men of military age, first time possible in history as of 2002.
There has to be an accepted peace plan by the nations for the arabs and the jews - we call it the road map for peace.
never before these past 10 years have any one, and certainly not ALL of the manifested at the SAME TIME. All of these things have to happen at the same time to mark His second coming.
remain alrert.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 7:57 PMCosmic,
<This is why we will receive no help, nor will there be any sort of armageddon involving angels, Jesus, or God.>
In all of your life, have you never received any help from angels, Jesus, or God? -
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 8:06 PMI wouldn't say I didn't, but I do not believe they are here in physical human form.
I would have to describe the intricacies of the qabalah to say *how* it is they seem to coexist *near* us in this realm of physical existence.
Many esotericists believe that angelic presence *is* the underlying substratum of this physical existence.
Therefore what one would call the 'string theory' of modern physics could, in theory, be angelic activity.
A consciousness lying underneath Newtonian euclidean physical existence, composed of 'agencies' from all around the universe, not just having some partial origination from here on earth. We would be rather self-centered to believe that life does not occur in a universe overflowing with solar systems, as recent extrasolar planetary discovery has borne through. Humanity is incapable of doing anything but destroying its own planet. The universe stands on its own, with, or without us. -
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 8:09 PMWhat if the some portion of the angels that might aid us have arisen around other stars, having lives totally different than human, yet were still called by God to help us? I don't see any reason that a mere difference in priorly-held form would cause them to have no sympathy for us. All life is precious, we just need to stop actively working towards our own destruction, as a race.
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 8:22 PMFrom this:
www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddh...ah.pdf
85. The Order of Angels assigned to Malkuth are the Ashim, the Souls of Fire, or Fiery
Particles, of which Mme Blavatsky says some very interesting things. A Soul of Fire is in
actual fact the consciousness of an atom; the Ashim therefore represent the natural
consciousness of dense matter; it is these which bestow on it its characteristics. It is these
Fiery Lives, these infinitesimal electrical charges, which are for ever weaving backwards
and forwards with tremendous activity in the background of matter and form its basis.
Everything that we know as matter builds up on this groundwork. It is with the help of
these Fiery Lives that certain types of magic are worked. There are but few who can work
such magic, for the denser the plane to be manipulated, the greater must be the power of
the Magus who commands it.
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Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 7:33 PM"O Solon, Solon, you Hellenes are never anything but children, and there is not an old man among you. Solon in return asked him what he meant. I mean to say, he replied, that in mind you are all young; there is no old opinion handed down among you by ancient tradition, nor any science which is hoary with age. And I will tell you why. There have been, and will be again, many destructions of mankind arising out of many causes; the greatest have been brought about by the agencies of fire and water, and other lesser ones by innumerable other causes. There is a story, which even you have preserved, that once upon a time Paethon, the son of Helios, having yoked the steeds in his father's chariot, because he was not able to
drive them in the path of his father, burnt up all that was upon the earth, and was himself destroyed by a thunderbolt. Now this has the form
of a myth, but really signifies a declination of the bodies moving in the heavens around the earth, and a great conflagration of things upon
the earth, which recurs after long intervals; at such times those who live upon the mountains and in dry and lofty places are more liable to
destruction than those who dwell by rivers or on the seashore. And from this calamity the Nile, who is our never-failing saviour, delivers and
preserves us. When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and
shepherds who dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas in this land,
neither then nor at any other time, does the water come down from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below; for which
reason the traditions preserved here are the most ancient. The fact is, that wherever the extremity of winter frost or of summer sun does
not prevent, mankind exist, sometimes in greater, sometimes in lesser numbers. And whatever happened either in your country or in ours, or
in any other region of which we are informed--if there were any actions noble or great or in any other way remarkable, they have all been
written down by us of old, and are preserved in our temples."
From Timaeus by Plato
circa 360 BC
Acts 7:20 At that time Moses was born, and he was no ordinary child. For three months he was cared for in his father’s house. 21When he was placed outside, Pharaoh’s daughter took him and brought him up as her own son. 22Moses was educated in all the wisdom of the Egyptians and was powerful in speech and action.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: last days?
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 7:42 PMNo one was able to anticipate the rise of technology. Thus, the opaque nature of end-times prophecy. -
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Re: last days?
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 1:24 PMwell, not all of it is as opaque as many would have us believe. The Hopi were very specific. The international space station, was called the first house in the sky. The nuke? Was called the gourd of ashes that would fall from the sky and could do to a tribe or a nation what a fire does to a prairie in a windstorm. Then they further explain that the first one who dropped the gourd of ashes upon another would have it dropped upon them shortly after the first house in the sky was completed.
they referred to our internet as a spiderweb we built through which we would communicate through. They referred to our cars as metal coffins we rode on without horses.
It's not really all that opaque, at least not from the ones that worshiped the great spirit, or Yahweh. -
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 2:32 PMI agree with your assessment Jason. These prescient inspirations could have only come in metaphorical-type imagery.
I haven't researched all the Hpoi visions. Hpoi are similar in their origins to Anasazi, perhaps Hopi is their preferred indigenous name.
I stopped by Mesa Verde and Chaco Canyon a few years back. These were one of the mostly peaceful tribes of Native Americans, by their own accounts. Magnificent ruins. Especially Chaco.
Life on this planet had better not go in an eternal cycle, or I will never come here again, no matter what I could possibly believe.
It would just be utterly futile. In fact, is now.
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 2:35 PMIt would be interesting to try to describe tribal beliefs concerning what they called the Great Spirit, and what Kabbalists consider to be the Supernal Triangle. But it would be mostly speculation. What is important is that they believed it was spirit, or non-material. Humanity has a great deal of difficulty allowing this idea to grow, without imposing unwarranted and excess limitation on it. -
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Re: last days?
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 3:14 PMi gotta vhs tape from 13 years ago or more, talking about what's happening now.
We was just kids knowing the end was soon.
just kids.
knowledge is there for those who look
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Unsu...
Re: last days?
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 6:06 PM"increasing entropy is called the second law of thermodynamics"
I don't understand how you can express belief in the second law of thermodynamics, yet quibble over scientific opinion about a (let me guess here) low-level radioactive isotope. Potassium is certainly not a superheavy metal like Plutonium or Uranium. It is a very light element. That it is radioactive over some long spell of time might not be that remarkable. I'm sure that I've heard of it before, but I've certainly never researched it, and I don't intend to now. Not worth the bother.
Why would any believers of any sort prefer to believe that their world's existence only lasted for a few thousand years?
I've probably sat on the john for a longer period of time than that. (joke/lol) -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Scientific method
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 9:18 PM<I don't understand how you can express belief in the second law of thermodynamics, yet quibble over scientific opinion about a (let me guess here) low-level radioactive isotope.>
Observation is not speculation. It doesn't take billions of years to observe increasing entropy.
I'm not sure it's a universal law, which is why I wrote "called the second law". I was speaking to your scientific mind :) No need to blame entropy on human weakness. Entropy is built into the design of the universe. And I do not believe it is a flaw.
<Why would any believers of any sort prefer to believe that their world's existence only lasted for a few thousand years?>
Should preference of belief alter the answer to the question of what is true?
or should I say that preference of belief may alter one's answer, but it does not alter the truth?
The disagreement may be more a matter of how long since the beginning, than how long it will last.
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Re: Christ is Back
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 10:09 AMGod speed David, You will be in my prayers on your Journey. -
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Re: Christ is Back
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 10:11 AM>>God speed David, You will be in my prayers on your Journey.
ditto man!
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Vegies
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 6:44 PMPersonally, I'm a vegetarian, but I would not say it is required for all Christians.
Jesus fed the multitudes with bread and fish
After the resurrection, Jesus fried fish for the disciples fish
And in Acts 10, Peter was instructed in a vision to kill and eat
Something to consider.
