Trying so hard to understand....

topic posted Tue, September 22, 2009 - 8:42 AM by  Jack
Share/Save/Bookmark
Advertisement
So this summer I've encountered two separate instances of wonderful people, claiming the cross, who have reported the same affliction that only comes from the enemy. After so much fasting and prayer seeking to understand the root of how such could even be possible, as, these instances basically turned everything I knew to be true about Christianity on it's head momentarily. The answer came from several different places, as unforgiveness, or false forgiveness, which are the same things.

I really want to understand so very bad, and so many questions arise in my heart about this sort of ... occurrence. It wasn't until this morning when I realized even Peter, standing next to the Christ, was speaking the devil's words - Christ rebuked the devil in peter...

This of coarse was before the day of Pentecost, and the Spirit of God moving to dwell withing the apostles....
What was Peter's opening? Does anyone have any ideas? How could a man standing right next to the Christ be invaded to speak the things that would make Christ rebuke the satans within peter?

I'm not confused, just super curious... I really want to find out the answer to this question.
posted by:
Jack
Iowa
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • Re: Trying so hard to understand....

    Tue, September 22, 2009 - 8:57 AM
    Jason,

    As I see it, the answer is given in the verse.

    Matthew 16:23: But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."

    The opening is setting the mind on man's interests rather than God's.
    • Re: Trying so hard to understand....

      Tue, September 22, 2009 - 3:54 PM
      I guess that would explain why this is such a bloody epidemic these days. Most peoples hearts are set on such silly things, even according to the world of men.
      • Re: Trying so hard to understand....

        Tue, September 22, 2009 - 6:09 PM
        I've seen this as a trend also. It seems tough for people to be real with others and to really forgive them. I actually have problems with it in my own life. There has been things though that have happened in my life to get me closer to true forgiveness.
        • Re: forgiveness, et al

          Tue, September 22, 2009 - 8:58 PM
          What is the root for the need for forgiveness? Either from God, from fellow man/woman, or from ourselves? How do we come to a true forgiveness?

          I would posit that the root is fear. Much of Scripture speaks against fear, and speaks towards true love casting out fear. When someone is forgiven, they no longer are in fear of consequences/reactions of a specific action.

          Psalm 112 (ASV)
          "....The righteous shall be had in everlasting remembrance. He shall not be afraid of evil tidings: His heart is fixed, trusting in Jehovah. His heart is established, he shall not be afraid, ....he hath given to the needy...."

          Romans 3:15-18 (ASV)
          "Their feet are swift to shed blood; Destruction and misery are in their ways; And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes."

          Romans 13:3 (ASV)
          "And wouldest thou have no fear...? Do that which is good..."

          1 John 4:18 (ASV)
          "There is no fear in love: but perfect love casteth out fear, because fear hath punishment; and he that feareth is not made perfect in love."
          • Re: forgiveness, et al

            Wed, September 23, 2009 - 12:06 AM
            the root, was the entrance of the enemy, looking for the open door that allowed the spirits to enter or involve themselves into the pysche of the persons. That's what I was looking for, so that it could be addressed. The root is unforgiveness, and I should have realized it when they told me they have this uncontrollable urge to make sure everyone who has hurt them knows that they have hurt them.
  • Re: Trying so hard to understand....

    Tue, September 22, 2009 - 8:43 PM
    Jason: <How could a man standing right next to the Christ be invaded to speak the things that would make Christ rebuke the satans within peter? >

    Do you truly believe this passage to be saying that Satan was within Peter? Do you think the words were truly Satan's words? Or were they really Peter's words - but in the spirit of Satan?
    • Re: Trying so hard to understand....

      Wed, September 23, 2009 - 12:04 AM
      then why wouldn't the Christ have said something like, your speaking like the devils workers.

      on a side note, years ago, I went out one night and drank more than my standard, one glass of wine once every several months. I got pretty loose out there on the street with a bunch of drunks.

      I had a good time, so to speak, there wasn't anything really giving me any burdens or fear at that time and I feel asleep quite peacefully.

      When I woke, I awoke to my inner man repeating that verse, get thee behind me, satan... over and over. Not something i had ever done before, as I'm not really into chanting verses you know... let alone something like that.

      As I started to wake up more, my inner man, inner thought kept running that over and over through my head. Moments later, I felt a snap, and like some kind of poison was leaving my whole body. I knew the stench well, was the same that was around my witch mother.

      I watched the Holy Spirit use that verse in my life, doing excatly what Christ did when he first uttered it.
      • Re: Trying so hard to understand....

        Tue, September 29, 2009 - 1:48 PM
        Jason, I dont know why i just got this vibe but your first post to start this thread sounds like, i judged this person, how bout you...
        and this last one says, hey look at me, i'm good cause i don't drink and this is how i do it.

        could be the mood i'm in
    • Re: Trying so hard to understand....

      Wed, September 30, 2009 - 1:16 PM
      <Do you truly believe this passage to be saying that Satan was within Peter? Do you think the words were truly Satan's words? Or were they really Peter's words - but in the spirit of Satan?>

      Isn't Satan a spirit?
      • Re: Trying so hard to understand....

        Thu, October 1, 2009 - 6:38 AM
        John: <Isn't Satan a spirit?>
        What is spirit? Do you believe that all angels are spirits? When people die, are they then spirit (ie, ghosts)? Is God spirit? Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit and God - since it is said that the Holy Spirit is God's spirit?

        To me, all angels are entities. All humans are entities. We are made of different types of essence, but we are both entities. And I don't think that when humans die, that they are then of the same essence as angels. When we die, we exist in the grave/sheol until the resurrection. Angels are not dead and travel - though some are bound.
        • Re: Trying so hard to understand....

          Thu, October 1, 2009 - 7:29 AM
          <What is spirit?>

          Spirits are the words we speak, the ideas that hold us, or that we hold consider the following:

          Jhn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.

          <Do you believe that all angels are spirits? >

          the term angel in the bible literally means messenger of God. There are Angels which are spirit, and their are angels which come from the heavens and are physical, the Elohim, which can also be called aliens or ET's. And there are angels that are normal people delivering a message from God. Paul and others encountered angels that were spirit in visions and dreams. Abraham encountered a physical angel and wrestled with him, also the elohim where physical beings that reproduced with humans on earth. When ever the holy spirt speaks
          through a person that person is being an angel.

          <When people die, are they then spirit (ie, ghosts)? >

          When people die, the only thing that remains is the spirit.

          <Is God spirit?>
          God is more then spirit, but one does error in say that he is, even Jesus did:
          Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

          < Is there a difference between the Holy Spirit and God - since it is said that the Holy Spirit is God's spirit? >
          The Holy spirit is that portion of God that we know, it is not all that God is. It is the word of God delivered to us through the teachings of Jesus and the scripture. We are filled with the holy spirit when we hear the word of God and believe it. Consider these verses:

          Luk 8:11 ¶ Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
          Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
          Luk 8:13 They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
          Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of [this] life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
          Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep [it], and bring forth fruit with patience.

          The words themselves are not spirit, but when they are accepted and believed do they become spirit, and bare fruit which is love, peace and long suffering.






        • Re: Trying so hard to understand....

          Thu, October 1, 2009 - 7:40 AM
          <And I don't think that when humans die, that they are then of the same essence as angels. When we die, we exist in the grave/sheol until the resurrection. Angels are not dead and travel - though some are bound.
          >

          The teaching of Jesus is that the dead sleep, whether they are of spirit yet or not is a matter of debate. According to Corrinthians that spiritual body does not exist until the ressurection:

          1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
          1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
          1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

          I would argue that what we as Christians have is a developing spirit that is born of the holy spirit. In death the development of this spirit is quickened and fully realized. Other people in the world have a spirit that is not born of the holy spirit and is mortal. In the second death their spirit is consumed in the lake of fire and they cease to exist forever. Consider these verses:

          Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
          Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
          Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

          __________

          1Cr 15:35 ¶ But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
          1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
    • Re: Trying so hard to understand....

      Wed, September 30, 2009 - 1:23 PM
      <Jason: How could a man standing right next to the Christ be invaded to speak the things that would make Christ rebuke the satans within peter? >

      Satan was able to speak through Jesus because he was not yet converted:

      Luk 22:31 ¶ And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [to have] you, that he may sift [you] as wheat:
      Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Recent topics in "Christianity Unplugged"

Topic Author Replies Last Post
"End Times" Geppy 52 December 14, 2009
new free e-book Rocky 4 December 9, 2009
Spiritual "Warfare" Geppy 50 December 6, 2009
C Street House No Longer Tax Exempt Rocky 1 November 19, 2009