Two questions: Does anyone have experience using the heater wand to heat the veggie oil before filtration? And do you still get a thin layer of fat after the heated oil is filtered and cooled?
I converted my 1976 Mercedes Benz 240D to veggie. I went with the single tank Elsbett system. I collect good canola oil from my work cafeteria. They cook with it for three days and change it. Unfortunately they do cook some meat in the oil, so there is a 1 inch layer of fat in the bottom of the 5 gallon jug when the oil settles. I only filter off the top and leave the fat layer with a good 2 inch layer of good oil on top of the fat layer. I found that when I filter the cold, or room temperature, oil the filter clogs up after 8-10 gallons, so I bought a heater wand from Greasel. This weekend I heated my 5 gallons of oil and filtered it ( and it went fast! ) But my problem is: after the oil cooled down over night there was a little layer of fat on the bottom of the filtered oil. I can't have that in a single tank system. The filters are expensive if they only filter 8-10 gallons before you have to toss them. The next common sense thing to do is heat oil, let it cool down and settle again for 2-3 days, heat again and be careful to only filter off the top. This way I get fast filtration and minimize the fat getting into the veggie to be used as fuel and get a longer life out of my filters. I'm looking for the easiest way to filter and I'm getting frustrated at the amount of time this is taking me. Any suggestions? Thanks, Keith
I converted my 1976 Mercedes Benz 240D to veggie. I went with the single tank Elsbett system. I collect good canola oil from my work cafeteria. They cook with it for three days and change it. Unfortunately they do cook some meat in the oil, so there is a 1 inch layer of fat in the bottom of the 5 gallon jug when the oil settles. I only filter off the top and leave the fat layer with a good 2 inch layer of good oil on top of the fat layer. I found that when I filter the cold, or room temperature, oil the filter clogs up after 8-10 gallons, so I bought a heater wand from Greasel. This weekend I heated my 5 gallons of oil and filtered it ( and it went fast! ) But my problem is: after the oil cooled down over night there was a little layer of fat on the bottom of the filtered oil. I can't have that in a single tank system. The filters are expensive if they only filter 8-10 gallons before you have to toss them. The next common sense thing to do is heat oil, let it cool down and settle again for 2-3 days, heat again and be careful to only filter off the top. This way I get fast filtration and minimize the fat getting into the veggie to be used as fuel and get a longer life out of my filters. I'm looking for the easiest way to filter and I'm getting frustrated at the amount of time this is taking me. Any suggestions? Thanks, Keith
-
Re: Veggie oil filtration help---San Francisco Peninsula
Tue, May 1, 2007 - 7:54 PMKeith,
Well that just about sums it up.
After a year and a half of filtering oil, I have come to the conclusion that there will almost always a certain amount of "fat" (I have never actually known just what all that funky stuff really is) settling out as it continues to age. Your best bet is to find some oil with no meat cooked in it, but oh so inconvenient in your case. If you have the leisure of letting it settle for another week or more after final filtering you would probably be safe.
The basic problem as I see it is the difficulty of pouring off the top oil without getting some small amount of nearly invisible fat in there. If someone knows of a way to do this I sure would like to know. It is the most difficult and time consuming part of the process.
Yes I do heat my oil on a wok burner purchased at an Asian store. I heat to 120-140 degrees, for no particular reason except for flow characteristics. I do so in a 5 gallon stainless steel pot with a hole on the side near the bottom and a pipe and a faucet installed. This is over a three leg welded stand with denim filter then it goes into a NSI welded seam 1 micron filter. As you have found out, the oil looks great when hot as the fat is heated and mixed, but will settle to the bottom as it cools.
To deal with this myself I store my filtered to 1 micron oil in a 55 gallon drum with a fill-rite 12V pump set up from the bottom at the 15 gallon mark. Once a year I drain and clean it. I found less than an inch of tan colored fat at the bottom. I always have 15 gallons of oil I can not really get to, so at that point I am pretty much out of oil.
There might some photos on this tribe of my 84 300 CD and my filtering set up. If not, drop me a line and I will send them to you.
-
Re: Veggie oil filtration help---San Francisco Peninsula
Sat, May 5, 2007 - 6:04 AMHi Keith, since your going with a single tank system I highly reccomend that you use a Fryer Oil Filter Powder for the initial time that you are cleaning your oil. The powder clings to Free Fatty Acids and particulate matter in the oil, Also depending on the filter media and the water content in the oil it can help remove any water that is in the oil from cooking.
Oil that is filtered using fryer oil filter powder, typically resembles something closer to new oil instead of seperating out into layers of dark and darker, with free fatty acids, water and other contaminants settling down to the bottom of your container.
Once you get the oil up to a more uniform quality, heating it gently to about 99C (correct for your altitude) [www.csgnetwork.com/h2oboilcalc.html ] or so until you hear all the crackling stop should remove all the water left in the oil. Then comes the settling time. Obviously the longer you let it settle the more crap that will settle out of it. I'm a big fan of glass carboys (think 5 gallon glass water cooler container) for this. They are easy to handle and dont mind gentle heating also they make it easier to mix batches of oil that may be more acidic than others together.
Key thing to remember is that after the initial heating, additional heating is not necessary. As oil heats up it develops convective currents from the thermosiphoning of the oil. This can be counter productive as it may stir up and water, particulates or fatty acids that may have already settled. Since your single tanking, ambient outdoor temperature should be just fine. A nice spot out of the sun, if you live in humid climates you'll want to have a dehumidifier nearby.
How to accomplish this?
Fryer powder is readily available at any restaurant supply. Follow the directions and dont use more than is called for. I'm a big fan of simplicity, but as your budget and creativity with the McMaster - Carr catalogue items grows you will probably put something quasi-automated together. In the simplest form you need a way to heat the oil and a way to safely pour it through a sock filter. A large micron sock filter will capture large particulates quickly and save your lower micron filters for later in the process.
Keeping the oil moderatly warm during this process will greatly improve the oils viscosity and flow ability. Filter down to your hearts content, but 5 Microns is usually sufficient. I reccomend for the final filtering with a Racor Diesel Fuel Filter / Water Seperator. They make great filters intended for higher viscosity fluids and flow well. This will help with preserving your auto fuel filters save for whatever contaminations is present in your fuel system.
Oil collection is usually done with time to allow for settling of the particulates and water. In lieu of that you can use other methods. If you go with a quick turnaround of the oil I highly reccomend restuarant grade Magnesol fryer powder in a closed loop sock filter and canister with heated oil. Obviously depending on the oils level of contamination and the type of oil will determine how much work you have to do to get it suitable for consumption. I'll see if I can get some pictures up.
Let me know if you have any quesitons. -
-
Re: Veggie oil filtration help---San Francisco Peninsula
Sat, May 5, 2007 - 8:09 AMHow exactly is the "Fryer Oil Filter Powder" used? Is it added during settling. or??? -
-
Re: Veggie oil filtration help---San Francisco Peninsula
Sun, May 6, 2007 - 1:38 AMThe Fryer Oil Filter Powder (FOFP) is intended to be used while the oil is at temperature. Traditionally it is introduced into the oil while it is in the fryer, the oil is then processed through a series of filters. Whereby FFA's, carbon particles, some mono and triglicerides, food particles and water are all bonded to and removed from the oil by way of the FOFP bonding to these particles and trapping them in the filter.
What you will notice immediately is that the oil has a much clearer appearance, almost like new. If you where to take a sample of oil from the same batch that has not been treated you may notice the oil in suspension, with lighter layers of oil resting atop darker layers. You will also notice particulates in suspension such as water and other matter.
This is done as a pretreatment before you run the oil through a cascading series of gradually smaller micron filter socks. Usually stopping about 5 microns is fine, but you can go as low as you have time and patience for. Next you want to remove any leftover water. Likely if you did the Magnesol properly you should have practically no water in the oil. If you can heat it to 90° C and you do not hear any(more) crackling or popping in the oil you can stop the heat. Oil doesn't settle while heated and excessive heating does nothing to improve the oil.
Next you'd want to let your oil settle. Personally I'm a fan of a week or so, but depending on the feedstock, how dirty it is and how well its been filtered this may or may not be necessary. The oil shouldn't be exposed to anymore heat or even sunlight since it will disturb settling or particulates. Ambient outdoor temp is fine.
After settling off I recommend drawing off the top oil if their is any further separation and running it through a final paper filter with a water trap. Again 5 microns is fine for this filtering but your can get as crazy as you want to, at this point the oil should be clear enough to see through easily. Test the pH of the oil anything that is too acidic should be mixed down with another batch this is more basic. Extremely acidic WVO should be avoided, it has high potential to create problems down the road even for Elsbett conversions.
This should produce oil that has virtually no [but usually none] grease in the bottom of your tank and no visible particulates. I say virtually because every kind of oil has slightly different qualities. I also say this because while Magnesol is amazing it is not an elixir for WVO that has been abused and overused.
The use of Food Service Grade [their are a couple varieties] Magnesol will help to greatly reduce the amount of time you have to spend filtering and settling your oil. For trusted and proven restaurants you would likely be able to go practically from the fryer to your fuel tank. Their is a distinction between the way Magnesol is used in WVO applications and Biodiesel. Their is a special type of Magnesol for Biodiesel and its used to help bring the oil up to spec without the need for water washing to remove alkali salts, methanol, suspended water, mono / tri glycerides, FFA content, radical particulates and the like. By bonding to these things it makes them too large to slip through sock filters and eventually even paper filters should they get that far.
And since you haven't asked me about price yet of Magnesol. It's coins on the gallon for processing WVO. Cheaper then processing biodiesel, but with peace of mind and actual improvement in the oil condition.
In other news I'm experimenting with a new technique for cold filtering the oil near its freezing point. Their is some exciting research that states that for certain oils this can help accelerate the settling process. -
-
Re: Veggie oil filtration help---San Francisco Peninsula
Sun, May 6, 2007 - 7:21 AMRight now I am settling, pouring off, heating, then filtering.
To heat, add magnesol and pour it back into totes for settling would add an extra time consuming step.
Right now I end up with waste oil that varies from week to week, as the quality of the oil I pick up varies. It would be interesting to heat and add magnesol to what I have considered waste and bring to the biodiesel co-op for biodiesel production. I have always suspected that a lot of what I give away has value but did not know what could be done. Do you think it is possible to extract more useable oil from this "waste product" by heating and adding magnesol?
Would adding magnesol to cold oil help with settling or is heat absolutely necessary for it work? I am not sure if the extra added step would be worth it or not for me. As it is the handling of lots of 35lb totes is already semi back breaking work.
Is there a ph strip designed for dipping to check ph, and if so where would one purchase them?
Thanks Again,
Mike
-
-
Re: Veggie oil filtration help---San Francisco Peninsula
Mon, May 7, 2007 - 9:04 AMDo whatever works for you.
For me with collection the oil is stirred up so everything is in suspension. I pour the oil into my barrel, heat it up and add the Magnesol . After its thoroughly agitated/mixed/stirred I change the pump from recirculate to tank to recirculate through 25 micron filter, I let that go for a few cycles and gradually cascade the sock filters down. Heating the oil improves the viscosity and helps evaporate the water that the Magnesol doesn't get (which is usually not very much). A majority of the crap that would settle out, is now in the sock filters and the final paper filter. Magnesol is not a settling agent it helps make filters more effective by bonding to particles that would normally pass through.
From their it goes into 5 gallon glass carboys to settle out at ambient temperature. Their usually isnt much at all in the carboys after they've settled at this point because a fair majority of it has already been filtered out. The oil has more even appearance and viscosity ( and doesn't separate into suspensions). Heating the oil after settling is being debated now as less effective then a process that is still way secretive right now. I call it cold filtering. Turns out that hot oil causes certain insoluble particles to remain suspended in the oil. But when cooling the oil to just above the cold flow pour point causes these particles to settle out of the oil at an accelerated rate. The oil is then polished one final time and fit for consumption.
Their are some really cool papers dealing with this and how our understanding of the variables in temp, oil feedstock and chemistry during processing will affect how much crap is removed from the oil and added to the oil to keep it stable during short term storage, as well as in your fuel tank. I will post something here when I get back home. -
-
Re: Veggie oil filtration help---San Francisco Peninsula
Tue, May 8, 2007 - 6:44 AMLooking foreward to the secret process!
-
-
-
-
-
