50 years of memories

topic posted Thu, June 19, 2008 - 9:19 PM by 
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Last night on the news there was a story about a man who'd been shot in a robbery. Apparently, one man waited as another man withdrew money from a cash machine and then shot him and took the money. There was a clip of the victim's daughter being interviewed, understandably grieving and quite emotional, pleading for someone to come forward with information about the killing because the police had no leads in the case.

The first thing she said, bloating out quite emphatically, was that, "Someone has stolen fifty years of my father's memories". I don't think I had ever heard a person's grieving expressed in quite this way, and for some reason her characterization of her pain using these words really moved me, and I realized that I'd never thought about the loss of someone in those terms.
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  • Re: 50 years of memories

    Fri, June 20, 2008 - 6:18 AM
    The Schofield Kid: [after killing a man for the first time] It don't seem real... how he ain't gonna never breathe again, ever... how he's dead. And the other one too. All on account of pulling a trigger.
    Will Munny: It's a hell of a thing, killing a man. Take away all he's got and all he's ever gonna have.

    from Unforgiven

    What do you call future memories?
    • What do you call future memories?

      Tue, June 24, 2008 - 8:45 AM
      Prescient nostalgia.
      • Re: What do you call future memories?

        Tue, June 24, 2008 - 2:27 PM
        Does anyone else have prescient nostalgia?

        I have this condition like a motherfucker. Sometimes I am overwhelmed with longing for this exact moment, as if I am visiting it from thirty years from now, looking back on it and missing it terribly
        .
        thedishwasherstears.blogspot.com/2...ml

        A Fistfull Of Googles



        Could it be, every feeling you've ever had, is still with you.
        And all the ones you think that you've forgot, have not,
        forgot you.
        as if feelings had sentience.

        It seems the answer is always yes,
        except in the dark night filled full of heavy clouds.

        Might it be, no is a way to freedom too
        and yeses are like brakes to a scandal
        driven clean through to a stop.

        It all made so much sense with a full moon bright,
        shards of stardust floating without effort to transcend.

        A quiet day reflects of shadows melting in the summer heat,
        burnt solidly to a compass born of steel.

        Hotter than a lance slipping silently, deadly,
        no.
        No it's not that real. The pretend to acquiesce.
        The no forgiveness street. Paved under the celebrated,
        the fated, hidden from sight, ancestral fights.

        Once we split apart, the coming of together, is full circle.
        Is it so big? Unbroken? Tidy little mess.
      • Re: What do you call future memories?

        Wed, June 25, 2008 - 4:45 PM
        the feeling of familiarity that is a component of much spiritual experience may represent a difference in activity in particular areas of the brain among individuals in part. the fusiform gyrus i believe is where we recognize faces as familiar. in other words, that coding of familiarity happens in a quasi-discrete module of the brain. signals can sometimes route weirdly along these lines, and deja vu may result. or, more likely, we sometimes can get something into short term memory before we are consciously aware of the information coming in, and so the experience has the uncanny familiarity of something from the past, though it is just the result of the cart getting there before the horse.
  • Re: 50 years of memories

    Fri, June 20, 2008 - 11:00 AM
    and i've never heard anyone express someone's outpouring as "bloating out".

    i'd say virtually everything we are is organized by, and basically bound to, memory, btw.
    • Re: 50 years of memories

      Fri, June 20, 2008 - 5:05 PM
      'bloating out' - seemed right at the time - though maybe poor word choice.

      It was just another story until she said that and I kinda froze and did a double-take. Where would we be without our memories?
      • Re: 50 years of memories

        Fri, June 20, 2008 - 6:58 PM
        "Where would we be without our memories?"

        i have a brother-in-law who just slipped on some water in his company's bathroom and can't remember anything more than 2 hours at a time. it's excrutiating and very frustrating for him. he's very reliant on his book of memories and loved ones.

        speaking of which... anyone know a good popularized primer on memory systems and the brain?
        • Re: 50 years of memories

          Sat, June 21, 2008 - 3:20 PM
          Wow, that sounds like the ultimate bummer for both him and the family. Hopefully his condition will improve over time.

          One book I frequent from time to time that has some information on memory and its integration with other characteristics of brain function is:

          Neuropsychology, Neuropsychiatry, and Behavioral Neurology by Rhawn Joseph. Though technical, it's well written and surprisingly easy to read. Lots of detailed pictures and solid references.
        • Re: 50 years of memories

          Sat, June 21, 2008 - 3:36 PM
          Also, Patricia Churchland's book, The Computational Brain, has a lot of references to memory, yet written more from neuroscience and computational perspectives.
        • Re: 50 years of memories

          Sat, June 21, 2008 - 4:32 PM
          wow, blue-j, sorry to hear that.

          i just googled for some info, and this guy has a resource on memory and the brain, given that info is being revised almost daily. he also has some interesting stuff to say:

          the neurobiological process of recollecting an experience is in some ways identical to the process of experiencing it in the first place! Dawson goes on to point out that all consciousness can be said to be recent memory, due to the time lag between experience and the perception of experience (5). One can imagine this lag as akin to the fifty second delay of a "live" football broadcast.

          New discoveries about the nature of memory and the workings of the mind are cropping up daily. In order to keep up with the dizzying barrage of new information, I've included a list of websites used as source material for this paper. If you find yourself overwhelmed, just tell yourself that none of this is really happening. It's just a memory, that's all.

          serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology...ren.html

          - actually, i just realized this article is a decade old! a "2008" search found this current database of scientific research in the area of memory:

          www.sciencedaily.com/news/mi.../memory/

          hope something here can be of use.
          • Re: 50 years of memories

            Sun, June 22, 2008 - 4:31 PM
            thanks to both of you for the tips! and compassion. this is a weird ride. my brother has been making some new advances over the last couple days though, retaining some memories a day even! wow, he sure did hit his head hard. poor fellow. i sure wish there was a magic pill to make it all better. i suggested omega-3s and B12 to nourish the damaged nerve cells, along with some exercises on lumosity.com, which seem cool. also, here's a great place to go for basic neuroscience:

            thebrain.mcgill.ca/

            well presented, nice layout, and multiple levels of expertise, and levels of explanation, with great links. a treasure trove!
            • Re: 50 years of memories

              Sun, June 22, 2008 - 4:50 PM
              blue, I assume the fellow had an MRI. You have any idea what it showed?
              • Re: 50 years of memories

                Sun, June 22, 2008 - 5:18 PM
                he's had a couple. i think one "with contrast" on thursday. not sure what it showed. damage to the temporal lobe, certainly, Papez’s circuit it seems. talk of a PET scan if no progress. multiple CTs already.
                • Re: 50 years of memories

                  Sun, June 22, 2008 - 5:19 PM
                  speaking of losing memories, new research on HEAVY pot use just came out, indicating shrinkage of the hippocampus and amygdala both:

                  health.usnews.com/articles/...juana.html
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: 50 years of memories

                    Tue, June 24, 2008 - 8:47 AM
                    It would be interesting to study the effects of ingestion -vs- smoking.
                    • Re: 50 years of memories

                      Wed, June 25, 2008 - 4:39 PM
                      i would predict no difference really, since the mode of input doesn't effect the reception in the brain. the only effect would be the AMOUNT involved that would get to the brain while still getting high. eating pot usually kicks the shit out of smoking it for its psychoactive effects, so it might even be worse than smoking, if done everyday. come to think of it, who the hell could eat it every day multiple times?? nobody, and function!
                      • Re: 50 years of memories

                        Wed, June 25, 2008 - 6:24 PM
                        "who the hell could eat it every day multiple times?? nobody, and function!" - bl

                        Someone with a very curious enabler.
                        Or possibly in the military.
                        It might depend on what function was being sought.
                        I kinda feel this way about reincarnation. Who could live multiply times?
                        Apparently experiencing life on earth (or someplace) throughout history and presumably even before that.
                        Now, given a time machine, I probably could handle some episodic trips of short duration, but not lifetimes and lifetimes.
                        For those of us who don't 'remember' past lives, I suppose the idea is moot.
                        I find the phrase 50 years of memories a little misleading, but of course I understand the meaning in context.
                        As I near 60, that gives me about 20 years of sleep and 40 years of being awake, ( I use the term loosely)
                        And as someone who doesn't recall many dreams that comes to 20 years of non-memory.
                        During the 40 years of awakeness, some very large chunks are taken up with daily routines fairly common to mid 20th century and beyond
                        american cultural life, with a few smaller chunks perhaps being a bit more unique and uncommon, but not by much.
                        I think it is pretty remarkable that we don't have to remember most stuff, after awhile we just know it. And it's the quality and emotional
                        attachments of some memories that make them last.
                        Among the many reasons that life is so precious is that so many memories are lost with each death.
                        From one second to many, many billions of billions.
                        • attachments of some memories

                          Thu, June 26, 2008 - 12:50 PM
                          It is really attachment to the gross mind at the expense of awareness of the subtle and very subtle mind - this is what reincarnates - one reason that 'this' form realm is said to be contaminated is that it is, and encourages, the illusion-like appearance to mind to that which does not actually exist.
                          • Re: attachments of some memories

                            Thu, June 26, 2008 - 1:02 PM
                            michael >> subtle and very subtle mind <<

                            Would you be willing to elaborate or post references?
                            • Re: attachments of some memories

                              Thu, June 26, 2008 - 1:29 PM
                              According to Vajrayana Yoga Tantra practice, it is explained that there are three levels of mind: gross, subtle, and very subtle. Gross minds include sense awarenesses such as eye awareness and ear awareness, and all strong delusions such as anger, jealousy, attachment, and strong self-grasping ignorance. These gross minds are related to gross inner winds and are relatively easy to recognize. When we fall asleep or die, our gross minds dissolve inwards and our subtle minds become manifest. Subtle minds are related to subtle inner winds and are more difficult to recognize than gross minds. During deep sleep, and at the end of the death process, the inner winds dissolve into the center of the heart channel wheel inside the central channel, and then the very subtle mind, the mind of clear light, becomes manifest. The very subtle mind is related to the very subtle inner wind and is extremely difficult to recognize. The continuum of the very subtle mind has no beginning and no end. It is this mind that goes from one life to the next, and, if it is completely purified by training in meditation, it is this mind that will eventually transform into the omniscient mind of a Buddha.
                          • Re: attachments of some memories

                            Thu, June 26, 2008 - 2:06 PM
                            there are much more accurate and detailed ways of speaking about such matters that aren't steeped in such ancient information and models. why stay attached to ancient ways? what makes them so special? i can answer one way: people often think that using scientific jargon or referring to anatomy debases a phenomenon. and yes, even scientists think this, and they DO debases experiences with their sacred "explanations." this is not wise either. can't we find a reasonable position where magic and science live together?
                            • Re: attachments of some memories

                              Thu, June 26, 2008 - 4:07 PM
                              blue-j >> there are much more accurate and detailed ways of speaking about such matters that aren't steeped in such ancient information and models. <<

                              Your bias is showing. ;-)
                              • Re: attachments of some memories

                                Fri, June 27, 2008 - 12:54 PM
                                yes, but my bias is not irrational. it depends on what you are trying to talk about of course. when talking about structures of the mind, for example, modern neuroscience and cognitive studies provide us a level of specificity and predictive/effective power that ancient texts can't touch, and they may even simply be wrong. the thing about maintaining an ancient discourse is that it frequently is viewed above the table as not being updatable, while of course we juggle with them all the time. anyone with a passing familiarity with the bible, for example, would notice how little most of it has to do with modern christianity.
                            • Re: attachments of some memories

                              Thu, June 26, 2008 - 5:02 PM
                              While there are other ways of describing such phenomena I haven't found them to be either more accurate or detailed. It is important to first preserve the knowledge in an oral tradition and then translate it accurately into modern parlance.
                              • Re: attachments of some memories

                                Fri, June 27, 2008 - 12:55 PM
                                "While there are other ways of describing such phenomena I haven't found them to be either more accurate or detailed"

                                how much do you know about the brain then? about the physiology of behavior? the nervous system? have you actually studied these things? i don't understand how they could be viewed as not being more detailed and accurate than buddhist epistemology.
                                • how much do you know about the brain then?

                                  Sat, June 28, 2008 - 9:42 AM
                                  "What is the mind? It is a phenomenon that is not body, not substantial, has no form, no shape, no color, but, like a mirror, can clearly reflect objects." ~ Lama Zopa Rinpoche

                                  I'm not talking about the brain, which is a part of the body, I am talking about the mind, and specifically the 'parts' of the mind that are considered continually residing, and not directly dependent upon the brain or body. (Yes, dependent in the sense that without this body, functioning in the form realm ceases.)

                                  As to my background; yes, I have studied these things broadly - behavioral science major with a minor in language in linguistics - so while I may not have a PhD in cognitive science, I am confident that I understand what I read in modern texts and abstracts. I have also studied Buddhism for 33 years, and I am confident that I understand those texts too. Outside of these 'credentials', which are ultimately meaningless in and of themselves, one must rely upon practical experiences and either look for meaning, or not.

                                  Whatever the source of the words we use to label the things and phenomena we experience, we are utterly dependent upon our own experience of them to derive any meaning. We are then dependent upon the language that is used to convey the experience or observation. So, while you may be very able to tell me in the parlance of modern science how a works and how you believe that all our experiences arise from that bio-chemical interaction, I can say that from my experience, what you are describing is not mind (as I know it).

                                  Even in psychology, where cognitive schema come perhaps closest to a modern definition of saṃskāra, I prefer the older terminology, not out of nostalgia or out of a sense of superiority, but because the language is more concise, and relates experience to the experiencer in a way that modern language constructs fail to do.

                                  The first verse of the Dhammapada states:

                                  "All things are preceded by the mind, led by the mind, created by the mind."

                                  Similarly, in the Abidharma (the earliest attempt at a systematic representation of Buddhist philosophy and psychology), the world is regarded as a phenomena originating in the mind.

                                  Mind is defined in Buddhism as:

                                  "A non-physical phenomenon which perceives, thinks, recognises, experiences and reacts to the environment. As such, the mind is described as having two main aspects: clarity and knowing; meaning that the mind is clear, formless and allows for objects to arise in it, and that the mind is knowing, an awareness, a consciousness which can engage with objects." [1]

                                  In order for us to agree upon this, because I have heard you disagree about this fundamental premise before, we would have to agree on every term used in tae definition, such as; think, recognize, react, clear, formless, and so forth. My experience with trying to come to agreement on these terms, especially with scientists as opposed to linguists, is that it rapidly degenerates into arguing semantics, and when people do not have a firm grasp of semantic roots, a battle of ad hominem ego posturing. (blue-j, this is not your tendency BTW ;)

                                  For the sake of this dialog - I do not wish to 'go there' - it is fine to disagree.

                                  [1] buddhism.kalachakranet.org/mind.html
                                  • Re: how much do you know about the brain then?

                                    Sat, June 28, 2008 - 2:53 PM
                                    i had a bad week this week. i was overworked horribly and stressed out. i'm sorry that a tiny bit spilled over here. this is my first day off in a couple weeks, and i worked just about 10-12 hours every day over the last 10 days! please forgive my condescending and spiky tone. i regret it. i wish i had approached the topic more gingerly, so as to open the way for mutual education and not defensiveness. you've been very gracious, as is your usual energy.

                                    i've said before that neuroscientific ways of speaking are egregiously inappropriate sometimes and that i value many viewpoints on the same phenomenon. of course i still feel that way. freud's models, buddhist models, all are accurate from don't benefit from thousands of lesion studies and knowledge of the correlative anatomy. this is not a denigration of everyday and spiritual speech about the mind; it is an invitation for dialogue and enrichment in both directions. a knowledge of neuroanatomy can't replace the phenomenal experience of mind; however, it can supplement it and even change our experience of it. we can start to identify what areas of the brain are activated in particular situations, and it's very cool.

                                    we have learned much about the "parts" of the mind via mapping to the brain. it's very fun stuff to learn about. i don't think it replaces buddhism, but i think i am not the only buddhist who invites neuroscience to the table.

                                    in a sense science can feel cold, because its method attempts to parse away the biases and values of the observers. but it's really just a natural way of trying to figure out stuff. we do it all the time, kids do it, it's very playful and explorative and can be a marvelous expression of wonder and engagement. one of the most positive aspects of it is that it is bottomless. it only gives us good reasons to believe something is true presently, until new experiences come along. unfortunately scientists can sometimes feign as if they themselves are above values and biases and come off as having a god complex, and this discredits the true warmth of what science can be about, and the reality of their embodiment and situatedness.
                                    • Re: how much do you know about the brain then?

                                      Mon, June 30, 2008 - 9:46 PM
                                      I too have had a 'bad' week in the sense that I learned my tumors have been growing again, yet a very 'good' week when seen from the perspective of renunciation and the effect this can have on both mind and behavior. I have been slacking off, wasting opportunities to heal my mind and body. What a wonderful opportunity to see cause and effect clearly. Practice Medicine Buddha and Lojong; tumors don't grow. Slack off for six months and resume a 'normal' lifestyle; die sooner. So perhaps with reflection we can both see the truth of our actions and their effects more clearly now.
                                      • so sorry to hear this news michael. i extend my fondest and most sincere wishes for your recovery. my bad week is trivial nonsense compared, and i apologize again for losing my cool.

                                        we may disagree sometimes over the grains of sand, but we're certainly on the same beach, my friend!



                                        _________I HOPE Y____________I HOPE YO
                                        ______I HOPE YOU HEA_______I HOPE YOU HEAL!
                                        ____I HOPE YOU HEAL!I H___I HOPE YOU HEAL!I H
                                        ___I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!_______I HO
                                        __I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!_________I HO
                                        _I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HO_______I HO
                                        _I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE Y______I
                                        I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU H__I H
                                        I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL_I
                                        I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I
                                        I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I
                                        _I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL
                                        __I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HE
                                        ____I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU
                                        ______I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOP
                                        _________I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YOU HEAL
                                        ____________I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HOPE YO
                                        ______________I HOPE YOU HEAL!I HO
                                        _________________I HOPE YOU HE
                                        ___________________I HOPE YO
                                        _____________________I HOPE
                                        ______________________I HO
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                                  • Re: how much do you know about the brain then?

                                    Sun, June 29, 2008 - 1:40 PM
                                    Michael, if you want to refer to some mythical place or state then I can understand the concept and consequently the statement such as you quoted:

                                    "A non-physical phenomenon which perceives, thinks, recognises, experiences and reacts to the environment. As such, the mind is described as having two main aspects: clarity and knowing; meaning that the mind is clear, formless and allows for objects to arise in it, and that the mind is knowing, an awareness, a consciousness which can engage with objects."

                                    At least the way I see it, there is no such thing as an entity that is "non-physical". Now there might be such an entity; I'm not doubting that possibility, but there'd be absolutely no way that you, me or any other being, living or dead, could have ever have any awareness of it. To be aware of something, by its very nature, means that you must interact with it, and there's no wiggle room here. If you can't interact with it, it cannot impinge upon your sphere of awareness, and from a practical point of view, without relying upon instrumentation to amplify our senses, it simply didn't happen - other than from the conjuring up of an image in our imagination, whether this image be intentionally guided or not.

                                    There is no mind apart from our senses, nervous system and the balance of our physical body. Now in theory it's possible to fuse the mind and body into a singular concept, what we consider as our self as merely a reference point (or assemblage of points) embedded in the process, and it's possible to construct such an image visually - yet even such an exercise has its underpinnings in the physical world, whether you want to characterize this world as sensory phenomena we've evolved to objectify or patterns of waves of which they're composed.

                                    I would seriously doubt that you or anyone else could provide a single example of mind devoid of a connection of what we would generally accept as being the physical world - at least through direct personal experience - not of what you've read about or been told.
                                    • Interesting ideas you hold as truth there Charles. An entity is defined as something that has a distinct, separate existence, though it need not be a material existence.

                                      What about light? Is it a particle or a wave? Is it physical? It can be measured as a frequency and it can react with particles under the right conditions in dependence upon a third axis observer. Yes it requires an exchange of photons in our very atoms in order to even perceive light. So do our perceptions come from out there anymore than in here? Given what we know about the nature of light and the questions that we have unanswered with all our vocabulary of science, we still cannot sum up the nature of mind with words in our living language any more concise than "meaning clear light". Meaning that its nature is pure and formless behaving like light, and it gives meaning.

                                      Though we are taught by Buddha that mind and body are two separate entities, it is a misunderstanding to think that this implies duality, for the mind that sees and the object seen arise from the same emptiness, or lack of inherent existence. This mountain or that mountain? You are over there telling me I am standing on that mountain and I assure you it is this mountain. If we were to switch places we would both see that this and that are dependent upon the mind.

                                      Looking within, we can come to understand the true nature of our minds, as the Buddha did, as is our nature; Dharmakaya pervading all of inner and outer space.
                                      • I don't look at light as being particulate - more of waves blending with waves, exchanging energy in a continuum. Light is a simply a medium for the transfer, a part of the process we've through evolution been sensitized. For myself, I (at least theoretically) I see no division between mind and matter, rather they're one and the same, two sides of the same coin. And I'll reiterate, to be aware of anything (mind or otherwise), you must interact with it. Anything and everything we experience to one degree or another changes, transforms us.

                                        Clearly we see things a little differently - but that's the way it goes.

                                        --------------

                                        I'm sorry to hear about your tumors returning. I find your openness, your strength and your attitude to be amazing.

                                        I've been dealing with a situation with my sister, who several months ago completed a series of treatments that almost did her in in an attempt to eradicate disease, and she told me yesterday that they'd found that the virus was again active in her system, and nothing else that could be done as any further chemotherapy would be fatal for her.
                                        • "Clearly we see things a little differently - but that's the way it goes." - Ch

                                          Is it more like things seen are described a little differently?
                                          Is seeing no division the same as seeing the whole?
                                          Not sure that is possible, except perhaps as a mosaic.
                                          If so it seems that a mosaic is what a whole was, not what it is, or what it might be, might become.
                                          Sometimes a mosaic can be, is close enough.
                                          • Glen, can you take another stab at that?
                                            • I'll pass.

                                              www.nybooks.com/articles/20370

                                              Freeman Dyson writes:

                                              I would like to borrow Carl Woese's vision of the future of biology and extend it to the whole of science. Here is his metaphor for the future of science:

                                              Imagine a child playing in a woodland stream, poking a stick into an eddy in the flowing current, thereby disrupting it. But the eddy quickly reforms. The child disperses it again. Again it reforms, and the fascinating game goes on. There you have it! Organisms are resilient patterns in a turbulent flow—patterns in an energy flow.... It is becoming increasingly clear that to understand living systems in any deep sense, we must come to see them not materialistically, as machines, but as stable, complex, dynamic organization.

                                              This picture of living creatures, as patterns of organization rather than collections of molecules, applies not only to bees and bacteria, butterflies and rain forests, but also to sand dunes and snowflakes, thunderstorms and hurricanes. The nonliving universe is as diverse and as dynamic as the living universe, and is also dominated by patterns of organization that are not yet understood. The reductionist physics and the reductionist molecular biology of the twentieth century will continue to be important in the twenty-first century, but they will not be dominant. The big problems, the evolution of the universe as a whole, the origin of life, the nature of human consciousness, and the evolution of the earth's climate, cannot be understood by reducing them to elementary particles and molecules. New ways of thinking and new ways of organizing large databases will be needed.


                                              Dyson also writes, "...cultural evolution has replaced biological evolution as the main driving force of change."

                                              One might also say that cultural evolution has returned to replace biological evolution.
                                              This smacks of seasonal or cyclic as also being a fundamental nature of change.
                                              It is intuitive and derived with hindsight. Perhaps it is with counter-intuition that foresight is achieved.

                                              " there is no such thing as an entity that is non-physical"

                                              Entity is defined and known as being physical.
                                              Non-entity is ill-defined and speculated as being non-physical.
                                              If a non-entity can be said to exist at all, it is by metaphor.

                                              It seems that some stories that are told to children that are meant to not only entertain but also to teach are in more need by the teachers than the students. It seems to me to be a non-argument over what is literally truth and what is literary truth.
                                              One might say lighten up to one and darken up to another.
                                              In this transition from biological to cultural, physicality is so catching up to dreams and idealism of the non-entities of the non-physical.
                                              • "Entity is defined and known as being physical.
                                                Non-entity is ill-defined and speculated as being non-physical.
                                                If a non-entity can be said to exist at all, it is by metaphor."

                                                A non-entity can't be ill defined or speculated upon, as there would not even have been a seed to produce such a reaction.

                                                Even a metaphor is a reaction to a physical event on some level.
                                    • Charles >> At least the way I see it, there is no such thing as an entity that is "non-physical". Now there might be such an entity; I'm not doubting that possibility, but there'd be absolutely no way that you, me or any other being, living or dead, could have ever have any awareness of it. <<

                                      How is that that you have come to this conclusion?
                            • Re: attachments of some memories

                              Fri, June 27, 2008 - 1:23 AM
                              "there are much more accurate and detailed ways of speaking about such matters that aren't steeped in such ancient information and models."

                              I think about this a lot. There's something so refreshing when someone can take a deeply scientific or esoteric or religious concept and transform it into simple, easily-understood prose. To a certain degree stilted vernaculars may by their very nature be utilized to exclude or just show superiority, in the same way that certain modes of dress, uniforms, styles, unnatural accents and the host of other ways that people segregate themselves into specific niches do. Certainly, this is not in any way being critical of individuality and diversity, yet when someone can take a concept, one that might be difficult for me to understand, and present it in a way that's based upon their individual experience devoid of experts' opinions, texts and the like - well, to me this can make a tremendous difference in the degree to which I'm able to not only understand the concept, but the person who's conveying it.
                              • Re: attachments of some memories

                                Tue, July 1, 2008 - 9:23 AM
                                whether exchanging heat or information, the illusion of inequality or simply difference is not decided materially. just choosing to be separate
                                is not enough to make it so.
                                in other words, I find shallow concepts easily expressed but hard to understand outside their being convenient due to both being innate and
                                learned.
                                perhaps the main excuse for coming apart is to come back together later.
                                parting is such sweet sorrow is a poetic description of a necessary act.
                                a claustrophobic event that eases tension, then proceeds to collapse back to relieve boredom.
                                extension is breaking away, intention is reconciliation.
                                conflict derives from cross-purposes and differences of style.
                      • Re: 50 years of memories

                        Thu, June 26, 2008 - 5:32 AM
                        > come to think of it, who the hell could eat it every day multiple times?? nobody, and function!

                        I did, back in ancient history. Function? A matter of opinion, I suppose. Some people think I failed to live up to my potential (some of them had in mind potential for academic grades; some of them were thinking of potential for chaos), but I happen to like the results of my life experiment.
                      • I reduce it in ghee (clarified butter) and ingest twice a day. It is a much different 'high', more of a body high than mind, and much more consistent. Comes on slowly and lasts 8 hrs. No itchy eyes or coughing. I question the study - too many variables - because smoking anything has that effect on the mind and body. Perhaps if they used a vaporizer to eliminate other variables in the smoke/ effects. Note: I haven't looked at that particular study - they may very well have...

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