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Help me to understand this, please...

topic posted Thu, May 1, 2008 - 10:53 AM by  Cyra
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Cyra
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  • Re: Help me to understand this, please...

    Thu, May 1, 2008 - 11:51 AM
    Help us to help you --

    I know that since you can only read my words and not hear how I would say them the following may come off as sounding snarky, but I don't mean it in such a way, truly!

    That being said.......Maybe you could start us off by saying what you don't understand about the article. The topic of it was horrific and even if I could help you to understand, I don't think I would know where to begin!

    Are you asking us to help you understand because the woman who is in this situation is in a Muslim country, and you are hoping that as Muslims we can explain the reprehensible behavior of the people who took advantage of her?

    I know you from the FDHBD tribe, Cyra, and I *know* you have more to say about this than one little subject line! :-)
    • Re: Help me to understand this, please...

      Thu, May 1, 2008 - 12:46 PM
      I would never consider anything you have to say on this (or any other) subject, snarky. Probably because I do know you, Fiona.

      That being said, I will have to get back to this later 2nite...need to process my thoughts further and distsill them ;}~, if you will.
  • Re: Help me to understand this, please...

    Mon, May 5, 2008 - 10:33 AM
    Ok, 1st let me say that I get that this is not common to all muslim people. What I do not get is the idea that women's rights are part of the law, yet the law is overlooked in these cases. How is the woman guilty of anything if she was kidnapped and then raped by the abductor? And how is her subsequent treatment correct?

    From what I understand, the men (country, whatever) in this article are NOT practicing Islam. I am currently reading a book by Imam F.A. Rauf, according to a quote from the prophet (pbuh), a man is measured by how well or how poorly he treats the women in his life. It would seem to me that the Afghani men are in some serious trouble. "If my wife goes to the bazaar without my permission, I'll kill her...it is our culture." That is wrong on sooooo many levels, don'tcha think?

    The quote from the article goes on to say, "This is not America..." No, obviously not, but maybe we do some things right here...women are not killed by their husbands for going to the market nor are they thrown in jail for a man's transgressions.

    I'm sure I have more to say, but I'm at work now, so I'll have to get back. In the meantime, maybe someone can help me with this much of my confusion.
    • Re: Help me to understand this, please...

      Mon, May 5, 2008 - 2:13 PM
      <<How is the woman guilty of anything if she was kidnapped and then raped by the abductor?>>

      Because, and brace yourself for this, some people are ignorant, corrupt and downright mean.


      <<It would seem to me that the Afghani men are in some serious trouble. >>

      They apparently have no idea how much trouble, but if they read the Quran, they would get an inkling.............


      <<That is wrong on sooooo many levels, don'tcha think?>>

      Yup.


      <<No, obviously not, but maybe we do some things right here...women are not killed by their husbands for going to the market.....>>

      Sure they are -- happens everyday. I work with a girl who had the everlovin crap beat out of her by her fiance because she fed her son what he called "white trash food" (mac n cheese with sliced up hot dog, btw). It's about insecurity and control, some people just choose to put a thin veneer of religion over their actions in order to justify them.

      I hope this helps, but I honestly can't believe you were ever that confused. You're no dummy, and this can't be the first time you've ever heard of this type of brutality and injustice taking place in the world.

      F.
      • Re: Help me to understand this, please...

        Mon, May 5, 2008 - 8:47 PM
        Ok, you're right, Fiona. I'm no dummy, I guess I wasn't thinking about the idiots that call themselves "men" in any part of the world that beat their wives, gfs...for whatever stupid reason. And it IS about control... Maybe I didn't think of that because it isn't as pervasive and American culture is not blamed for it...well, at least not on a national level.

        I don't know that "confused" is the right adjective, maybe just overwhelmed by disgust and horror. Empathy can be a good thing and a bad thing sometimes. I guess maybe I feel too much.

        -some people just choose to put a thin veneer of religion over their actions in order to justify them. -
        This is why I have a problem with organized religion. It seems that, many times, the masses are willing to let others interpret what this or that means instead of reading and learning for themselves. Sometimes the people in charge are wrong in their interpretations and therefore mislead the masses. Most people, whatever faith they claim to belong to, don't even have a clue what their religion/faith is really all about. Which is why I have gone off on my own, to figure out what I can before I go to someone that is supposed to be educated in regards to this subject. I know the difference between someone that has actually studied and someone that is just quoting verses verbatim. In other words, I know a hypocrit when I see one. You, my friend have, obviously, done your homework. Thank you.

        • Re: Help me to understand this, please...

          Tue, May 6, 2008 - 3:14 PM
          Salaam all, thank you for your valuable input.

          Pesonally, I was neither surprised nor distressed by the article because it is so brief in explaining the reasons why the young girl was also being punished. I simply do not believe everything I read and am very skeptical with such article as to their accuracy due to the lack of evidence and explanation. To me it read more like a propaganda headline. If I were to assume it true, I personally have 101 questions before I could possibly make any Islamic assessment of the situation.

          Cyra, you said "This is why I have a problem with organized religion." Personally I have a problem with organised governments but the truth of the matter is, we cannot live without either. Organisation is necessary as means of limiting chaos and injustice. The fact that chaos and injustice continue to exist, in my opinion, is due to the fact that we people pick and chose what parts we will impliment and what parts we discard.

          So then back to the article, I assume that your distress and disgust Cyra is due to the fact that Afganistan is supposed to be an Islamic country, because as Graffiti pointed out there is nothing about Islam in the article, however, I understand the question of how can such injustice occur under Islamic rule. Very simply, there is no Islamic rule because governments have plucked bits and discarded bits to suit their whims and then made an unjust and inaccurate claim of being Islamic.

          Governments, societies, communities, individuals all have a choice to choose what they believe and support, however, when we choose a particular doctrine and proceed to dismantle it to our desire, we are simply doing an injustice to ourselves and others.
          • Re: Help me to understand this, please...

            Wed, May 7, 2008 - 8:07 AM
            I didn't mean to imply that it was an Islamic issue in and of itself. My apologies. I inferred, I suppose because Afghanistan is supposed to be a Muslim country. You are right, Lina...governments tend to pick and choose what to use "against" their people, as opposed to "for the good of" their people, according to what suits those in charge. The gov't of the US is no different and just as guilty. As perfect as the documents that established this country are, the gov't has found a way to mess it up and therefore usurp the authority of the people over their governance. And the people, after all this time, have become complacent in what their rights are. It would seem that no one knows or cares anymore and are just content to let the gov't (regardless of where...) do what it will. I understand that, after a long period of time, it is difficult to muster the elements needed to throw the unjust out of office, especially when speaking of ruthless, military regimes. The people become used to the mistreatment and consider it a part of normal life. Kinda hard to even think of overthrowing a corrupt gov't when there is a huge military force backing it up...

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